21-02-2005 23:25									#31
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Portugal:

	21-02-2005 23:28									#32
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quote: Originally posted by Kidicious If you really want a good laugh read The Wealth of Nations. Funny stuff man.

Nothing beats Das Kapital

	21-02-2005 23:49									#33
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The thing is I've read both, and I think you have read niether.

quote: Labour was the first price, the original purchase - money that was paid for all things. It was not by gold or by silver, but by labour, that all wealth of the world was originally purchased.

-Adam Smith

	22-02-2005 00:57									#34
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quote: Originally posted by Kidicious The thing is I've read both, and I think you have read niether.

You think? That's a good start

	22-02-2005 01:47									#35
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Therefore he am.

	22-02-2005 01:49									#36
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quote: Originally posted by Lawrence of Arabia the whole iberian peninisula is socialist now.

Except these socialists don't act like socialists of old.

	22-02-2005 01:55									#37
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So are the Portuguese parties analagous to other European parties? Or are the Socialists really like Euro S-D's and the S-D's really like Euro liberals?

	22-02-2005 01:59									#38
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quote: Originally posted by Provost Harrison Besides, down with stock markets, what kind of means of running the welfare of a planet are they anyway?

To compare relative efficiencies of economic systems one could look at the relative prosparity of West Germany compared to East Germany or North Korea compared to South Korea. One system clearly out performs the other.

	22-02-2005 02:25									#39
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East Germany was intentionally run into the ground by the Soviets.

	22-02-2005 02:28									#40
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quote: Originally posted by St Leo East Germany was intentionally run into the ground by the Soviets.

At the beginning, sure. Toward the end, East Germany was intended as the shopping-window of the Soviet bloc, and was substantially better off than other parts of central and eastern Europe.

	22-02-2005 02:38									#41
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Interesting point. Mea culpa.

	22-02-2005 03:24									#42
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I wonder if some people on this thread realize that the "Socialist" Party of Portugal is simply the center-left, not a bunch of people parading slogans of Rosa Luxemborg.

	22-02-2005 03:31									#43
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui I wonder if some people on this thread realize that the "Socialist" Party of Portugal is simply the center-left, not a bunch of people parading slogans of Rosa Luxemborg.

I don't know about their policies, but I expect them to be like that. Which is what I'm not too thrilled (yet content)

	22-02-2005 03:41									#44
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui I wonder if some people on this thread realize that the "Socialist" Party of Portugal is simply the center-left, not a bunch of people parading slogans of Rosa Luxemborg.

All the big "socialist" parties in Europe are center-left. The true socialists in Portugal are of course found within the BE (among them the portugese section of the Fourth International)

http://www.internationalviewpoint.o...?id_article=412

	22-02-2005 03:47									#45
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quote: Originally posted by Kamrat X All the big "socialist" parties in Europe are center-left. The true socialists in Portugal are of course found within the BE (among them the portugese section of the Fourth International) http://www.internationalviewpoint.o...?id_article=412

I know that, but it seems like some of my fellow Amis are thinking Lenin is coming to Portugal (a slight exaggeration)!

	22-02-2005 03:51									#46
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quote: Originally posted by Kamrat X All the big "socialist" parties in Europe are center-left. The true socialists in Portugal are of course found within the BE (among them the portugese section of the Fourth International)

CDU

	22-02-2005 03:58									#47
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What my good comrade Imran said, here. What this probably means is that privatizations and general market deregulation continue at a slower pace than usual. Or perhaps at a faster pace - the socialist parties of Europe of late have been odd that way.

And that's a good thing, too.

	22-02-2005 04:04									#48
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quote: Originally posted by Spiffor CDU

Stalinists arenīt real socialists... You could as well support the CIA backed loony maoists in MRPP

	22-02-2005 04:07									#49
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui I know that, but it seems like some of my fellow Amis are thinking Lenin is coming to Portugal (a slight exaggeration)!

Well, in the US everyone slightly left of John Kerry is considered a Lenin in disguise...

	22-02-2005 04:24									#50
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quote: Originally posted by Kamrat X Stalinists arenīt real socialists... You could as well support the CIA backed loony maoists in MRPP

I seriously think they have dropped stalinism a long time ago. Heck, even we at the PCF dropped stalinism a few decades ago, and I reckon we were the smallest in western Europe

	22-02-2005 04:25									#51
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quote: Originally posted by Kamrat X Well, in the US everyone slightly left of John Kerry is considered a Lenin in disguise...

You mean, slightly right of John Kerry, don't you? Didn't you know that Kerry is the demon-spawn of a fanatic Trotsky and a fanatic Che?

	22-02-2005 04:45									#52
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quote: Originally posted by Spiffor I seriously think they have dropped stalinism a long time ago. Heck, even we at the PCF dropped stalinism a few decades ago, and I reckon we were the smallest in western Europe

Well, ex-stalinists are even worse. Their petty-bourgeois values laid bare for all to see. PCF is a good example, cooperating with Mitterands and Jospins so called "socialists". Join a real socialist party like the LCR

	22-02-2005 04:52									#53
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quote: Originally posted by Kamrat X Well, ex-stalinists are even worse. Their petty-bourgeois values laid bare for all to see. PCF is a good example, cooperating with Mitterands and Jospins so called "socialists". Join a real socialist party like the LCR

Well, I think we have finally understood we shouldn't bend over to the Socialists, considering that our second alliance with them led us to a pathetic 3.5% (we got better now, with about 8%, which is still insufficient).

I would like to see a union between the PCF and the LCR, because we fundamentally share similar values, but we have a different strategy: The PCF tries to have some of its policies passed, and pays the prize of compromising with the evol socialists. The LCR can criticize to its hear's contents, but will never implement its policies.

If we could overcome this problem, we could seriosuly work together and become a political force much stronger than when divided.

	22-02-2005 05:20									#54
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Spiffor, it would be hard, not to say impossible to merge LCR and PCF. Thereīs more than strategys that differ. Sometimes bigger isnīt better... But who knows, in the local elections of 2001 the LCR/LO/PT-slates contained dissatisfied PCF members in some towns and even official PCF sections...

	22-02-2005 06:45									#55
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quote: Originally posted by Saras You think? That's a good start

Try it out for yourself.

	22-02-2005 14:13									#56
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara You're just trolling, right? Wealth in money is real as far as human society is concerned, even if it's nothing more than electrons. Wealth isn't just things, it's also obligations, and all of those obligations would disppear if the stock market crashed to zero, and that's a hell of a lot of wealth.

The question to ask is, if it's real wealth in the stock market, how could it all vanish in a puff of smoke? When the market goes up, where did the money in it come from? It's all just funny stuff.

	22-02-2005 14:16									#57
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quote: Originally posted by Oerdin To compare relative efficiencies of economic systems one could look at the relative prosparity of West Germany compared to East Germany or North Korea compared to South Korea. One system clearly out performs the other.

You have a problem explaining why DPRK was doing better than RoK up until the 1970s.

	22-02-2005 14:51									#58
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger You have a problem explaining why DPRK was doing better than RoK up until the 1970s.

A lot less trouble explaining it than you do proving it.

	22-02-2005 15:31									#59
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a ****ing collapse of another country.. I thought was nice..

	22-02-2005 15:41									#60
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Molly, You're being sillier than ever before.

And the gouverment would fall even if it didn't lie, simply because people are generally cowards.