28-02-2005 21:31									#61
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quote: (or whatever it’s called in English. In Dutch: versterkte samenwerking)

A frenchy writing dutch?!
I can die happily now, for I have seen all..



I just found we won't get a referendum, according to our Walloon Grand leader, we are too stupid.
He does want a referendum to see if Belgium should split.

	28-02-2005 21:36									#62
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quote: Originally posted by alva A frenchy writing dutch?!

Err, no, it was Maniac. I forgot the quote tags
If it can relieve you, I know a Frenchman who speaks Dutch, but that's only because he is Flemish

quote: I just found we won't get a referendum, according to our Walloon Grand leader, we are too stupid.

	28-02-2005 21:45									#63
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quote: Originally posted by Spiffor quote: Originally posted by alva A frenchy writing dutch?! Err, no, it was Maniac. I forgot the quote tags

there are some things we shouldn't fool around with, not sure if the universe could have handled it.

	28-02-2005 23:21									#64
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quote: I'm especially eager to see the second one. Ever since Maastritch, we have been plagued by the unreasonable expectations of consensus. We must "agree" in all circumstances. Any disagreement is bad, bad, bad. That might have worked when we were 6. Now that we are 25, it's completely stupid. Some countries are extremely attached to their sovereignty, like Britain. Some countries have just recently been independent and don't want to transfer their sovereignty to a monster, like Poland. I don't think we should shove political integration down their throats. OTOH, I don't think the Euro-supportive countries should continue to wait for the others, which will probably be forever reluctant. The NO to the constitution will make this debate finally salient, especially if two countries like France and Britain oppose it.

i agree. the EU needs to move towards decentralization and géometrie-variable (multi-variable?) those who want to integrate more, let them.

	01-03-2005 00:27									#65
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Why do constitutions have to be so long, nowdays? Keep them simple, outline the structure of goverment and fundimental rights and liberties, you don't need 200 pages to do that.

	01-03-2005 00:39									#66
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As I am currently in beautiful España I can tell you, yes people stayed away because nobody really had a plan on what this is about and what they are voting for.
OTOH Zapatero did a good job mobilizing people by simply stating "Vote Sí and vote for Europe, vote no and you will vote against Europe" and he brought up everything what the EU did good to Spain and such.

I perceive a black future for the EU if it continues like that.. my hope is almost lost.

	01-03-2005 00:57									#67
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One may wonder, if the Euro brought misery all over Europe, what will this Constitution (that AGAIN, citizens are NOT required to vote) bring?

	01-03-2005 02:40									#68
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What troubles me is firstly, that there is almost no opposition to the EU, and the EU passes laws like crazy which the media never tells us about. But Also, non of these referendums is actually binding, so if the spaniards had said no, then the government would have gone ahead anyway.

Even when it is binding, they just keep holding referendums untill they get the required answer

	01-03-2005 03:13									#69
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quote: Originally posted by The Andy-Man Even when it is binding, they just keep holding referendums untill they get the required answer

That's why you have to continually vote in them, and mobilize people to vote in them

	01-03-2005 03:16									#70
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quote: Originally posted by Spiffor That's why you have to continually vote in them, and mobilize people to vote in them

Personaly, i htink that if your going to have a referendum that significantly changes and effects a nations sovereighnty, then it should require 75% of the electorate to agree.

That doesn't mean 75% of thee vote is yes, it means 75% of registered voters.

	01-03-2005 04:31									#71
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quote: Originally posted by Datajack Franit One may wonder, if the Euro brought misery all over Europe, what will this Constitution (that AGAIN, citizens are NOT required to vote) bring?

Actually I like the euro!

	01-03-2005 05:14									#72
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quote: Originally posted by Atahualpa Actually I like the euro!

Yeah, it's all right, except that there still isn't any slang around so we all still end saying that stupid word.

You go and try to sound cool placing a bet during a poker game using the word "Euro" and bluffing's even worse. C'mon, who the **** is going to take you serious.

	01-03-2005 05:40									#73
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And we can't even use slang for the past currency, because it would confuse things

	01-03-2005 05:48									#74
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mille balles

	01-03-2005 05:58									#75
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quote: Originally posted by Lawrence of Arabia mille balles

That 152.40 € and you know it

It just doesn't have the same ring to it, does it?

	01-03-2005 05:59									#76
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The Euro is a good move as long as the 25 national economies are intigrated well enough so that you don't have some countries over heating and others in recession. Since the members gave up control of monitary policy the main economic controls the members will have is tax policy, the amount of regulation, and deficit spending. It's the possible deficit spending which could get the Euro into trouble if some members spend was more then they make then it could drag the whole Euro down.

Luckily for you folks we have Bush screwing up our finances here in the US so you folks will look good in comparision.

	01-03-2005 06:02									#77
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quote: Originally posted by Oerdin It's the possible deficit spending which could get the Euro into trouble if some members spend was more then they make then it could drag the whole Euro down.

If only we did this...

We have lost considerable competitivity since the dollar started to fall. And of course, to make for the loss, the employees are pressure more and more acutely for the sake of a "competitivity" we could have if we weren't so fricking obsessed with monetary stability.

	01-03-2005 06:26									#78
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Competitive currency devaluations was one of the big reasons for the depression in the 20s & 30s. They're not a good idea as they destroy a lot of accumulated capital.

	01-03-2005 08:34									#79
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quote: Originally posted by Spiffor That 152.40 € and you know it It just doesn't have the same ring to it, does it?

Especially not since it should be €152.40.

Did you guys use "sac" too?

	01-03-2005 09:22									#80
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quote: Originally posted by alva Did you guys use "sac" too?

Yep, for 10 Francs IIRC.

I never had too much money when the Franc was around, so I'm not really familiar with any slang that encompasses more than one franc

	01-03-2005 10:09									#81
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quote: That 152.40 € and you know it It just doesn't have the same ring to it, does it?

i just dont see why they dont use 'balle' for the euro.

	01-03-2005 10:36									#82
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quote: Originally posted by The Andy-Man Personaly, i htink that if your going to have a referendum that significantly changes and effects a nations sovereighnty, then it should require 75% of the electorate to agree. That doesn't mean 75% of thee vote is yes, it means 75% of registered voters.

I wonder when was the last time 75% of registered voters voted for ANYTHING in ANY country

	01-03-2005 11:22									#83
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australia.

	01-03-2005 11:26									#84
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Btw, when you talk about Euros, what do you call the cents? Do you just say 153.40 Euros or 153 Euros and 40 ____ (and what is in that blank?)

	01-03-2005 11:53									#85
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Cents. * sigh *

quote: i just dont see why they dont use 'balle' for the euro.

It just don't work for some reason. Perhaps it has to do with the unfamiliarity of it(which will never go away btw). The moment you use slang people automaticcal assume you're talking 'bout "old" money.

	01-03-2005 11:58									#86
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Mwahah... we've infected Europe with 'cents' . Even though it's probably originally from French, through Latin .

	01-03-2005 12:05									#87
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Not really, we used to have centimes before too but they weren't really used anymore.
I often threw them away (the 25cent coins were very little), in one instance one of the little buggers got stuck in my washing machine and it cost me something like a 100€ to get it out.


1 old belgian Franc = 1/40€

	01-03-2005 15:15									#88
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui Mwahah... we've infected Europe with 'cents' . Even though it's probably originally from French, through Latin .

Don't count on it, Yank.

We the French (and we're not the only ones) especially fought for the right to use the old word for the centile division, without having to switch to the monstrous, Americaqn-based, and plainly ugly "cent". In France, pretty much everybody calls them "centimes" like before, and I think it is a trend that can be seen in other countries as well (though not with the French word but their own, obviously)

	01-03-2005 15:20									#89
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quote: Originally posted by Maniac In Dutch: versterkte samenwerking)

In German: Verstärkte Samenwirkung.

	01-03-2005 16:13									#90
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I think the EU should bow to the wisdom of the Brits in this instance and go with an unwritten constitution. The bottom line is that an unwritten constitution says whatever the government wants it to say. Talk about flexibility! Amend it? You can't even ratify it!