24-02-2005 01:42									#31
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But you never will!!! Don't you know that if you type "Victor Hugo" on google, you only have American comments about him!!! Aaaargh!

[/stupid - for a while]

	24-02-2005 01:57									#32
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Actually, if you type Victor Hugo in Google, you will get a Penguin Classics "selected works" of him.

Hey, maybe this joker has a point...

Nah...

	24-02-2005 02:47									#33
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quote: This speech reeks of the Gaullian/Chiracian delusions of creating a multipolar world. It reeks of the fear of a conspiracy that Google is really out to let only Anglo universities do the job. Besides, this speech shows a terrible lack of understanding on the dynamics of knowledge-sharing.

So my troll is proven true?

In any event, I've always wondered how some French believe they have the power to create a multi-polar world. IMO, the best that France can do is to adapt to realities that have been created outside its control. In most respects, even the US itself can only chart its own course and not its relative power among nations. Even the neocons will admit this.

	24-02-2005 02:52									#34
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quote: Originally posted by DanS In any event, I've always wondered how some French believe they have the power to create a multi-polar world.

The European Union.

	24-02-2005 02:55									#35
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The EU has been decidedly reluctant to take up that mantle. When are the French going to convince Germany to increase its military expenditures? A multipolar world is an expensive proposition.

Last edited by DanS on 24-02-2005 at 03:01

	24-02-2005 03:08									#36
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There's a certain hubris that develops once a country has had a shot at being top dog.

Yes, I include the US in that.

	24-02-2005 03:10									#37
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quote: Originally posted by DanS The EU has been decidedly reluctant to take up that mantle. When are the French going to convince Germany to increase its military expenditures? A multipolar world is an expensive proposition.

That doesn't stop many Frenchmen from viewing the EU as a means to create a multipolar world.

	24-02-2005 03:15									#38
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Yes, and I still wonder why.

	24-02-2005 03:15									#39
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quote: Originally posted by DanS I would guess that Google would be ecstatic to digitize the French national library.

This guy is a complete nutjob. Seriously, google is working as part of a collective effort to produce a digital online library which is free to everyone with an internet connection. Both the California Public Library System and the Library of Congress are trying to do the same with the end goal of having every page of every book ever written in every language to be freely accessable to everyone over the internet.

It is a shame this man wants to fan the flames of nationalism, anti-Americaism, and Franco-centrism. Wouldn't it be better if the French joined in this effort to help create a digital online library and stopped the nationalist d!ck waving?

	24-02-2005 03:17									#40
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quote: Originally posted by Spiffor This cretin would be better served if he gave google his whole stock of digitalized books. The transmission of knowledge would be better, and people from around the world could flock to our great French speaking books.

I seriously have to agree with you. Instead of claiming the Americans aren't copying enough French language books why not just digitalize them and get them on the net so everyone can enjoy them. Let google and the other search engines lead the world to the doors of French liturature.

	24-02-2005 03:18									#41
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Dan: because it's the most viable option and somewhat working as well? Don't forget that in trade issues there actually IS a multipolar world.
And the attention Bush has been giving to the EU in his latest visit (at least according to the local media and bigwigs) will only encourage them.

	24-02-2005 03:32									#42
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quote: because it's the most viable option and somewhat working as well?

I think "somewhat working" with regard to creating a multipolar world is a rather generous description. Trade issues are the exception to the rule. The EU has had several decades of integration effort with regard to some economic matters.

The EU hasn't seemed to create a counterweight to the anglosphere on cultural matters, for instance. The EU will probably be one of the biggest factors in the confirmation of the English language as the lingua franca for the age.

quote: And the attention Bush has been giving to the EU in his latest visit (at least according to the local media and bigwigs) will only encourage them.

Well, they appear to be able to read whatever they wish from Bush's visit (this is probably Bush's intent).

By the way, I thought this thread was about Google, not Bush. Is Google somehow now Bush's fault?

	24-02-2005 03:56									#43
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quote: Originally posted by Spiffor I'm not sure about that. We do have our fair share of paranoids over here (by "paranoid", I don't mean people who think our cutlure is in danger, but people who think that whatever stems from the Anglo world can only be a threat and not an opportunity).

Good point. French teenagers who liked rap music or electronica kind of proved that some French culture bureaucrats didn't get it when they started making French language rap music and/or started spinning French techno & electronic music. At first the culture police tried to block these artists on the grounds that their art was not sufficiently "French" and contained to many Anglo influences but the artists kept producing underground despite the government's opposition. Eventually their commercial success could not be denied and now French artists have a great business in the rap and electronica music styles.

	24-02-2005 05:01									#44
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Hey. There's reactionary bastards everywhere. What's the big deal.

	24-02-2005 06:53									#45
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I do somewhat agree with the guy's reluctance, not because the initiative comes from the English world - after all, you guys are leader for a reason - but rather because I would prefer to see such an endeavour undertaken by a public non-profit organization.

	24-02-2005 06:57									#46
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Why?

	24-02-2005 06:58									#47
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And what public non-profit organization is going to put up the money to do it? None have stepped forward.

	24-02-2005 07:00									#48
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Well, that's what he wants to do.

Of course, it won't happen. And I trust Google more about the catalogization - whatever the right word is - of the data.

	24-02-2005 08:14									#49
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So you are saying that he wants an improbability? So why attack Google and the US/UK over that?

	24-02-2005 08:30									#50
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quote: Originally posted by Oncle Boris The Fabric

Is 'the fabric' an actual metaphor that used or is it a total failure in the translation?

	24-02-2005 09:37									#51
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It's a total failure.

"Toile" has the meaning "Fabric", but also "web". The translator didn't take the right one.

	24-02-2005 09:38									#52
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui So you are saying that he wants an improbability? So why attack Google and the US/UK over that?

He's not attacking them, he's just "reluctant to their advances".

	24-02-2005 12:13									#53
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quote: When Google defies Europe, by Jean-Christmas Jeanneney

His name is christmas???

	24-02-2005 14:19									#54
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the real effort would be to have a huge digital online library that has an independant stature. no single company deciding what translations of what books become available, but an international governamental cooperation.

why governamental ?

well at least you can trust the governement that they won't let their choice of books be guided by the number of hits the titles receive.

	24-02-2005 14:41									#55
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quote: Originally posted by dannubis the real effort would be to have a huge digital online library that has an independant stature. no single company deciding what translations of what books become available, but an international governamental cooperation. why governamental ? well at least you can trust the governement that they won't let their choice of books be guided by the number of hits the titles receive.

exactly. instead with government oversight you will have no idea whatsoever as to why a particular choice of book was made.

	24-02-2005 14:47									#56
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quote: Originally posted by dannubis the real effort would be to have a huge digital online library that has an independant stature. no single company deciding what translations of what books become available, but an international governamental cooperation. why governamental ? well at least you can trust the governement that they won't let their choice of books be guided by the number of hits the titles receive.

Yes, that choice will be made by the bureaucrat de jour.

Kudos to Google for its initiative. Kudos to the EU if it decides to digitize and make available more material. This shouldn't be something that invokes nationalism, turf wars or jealousy, it is in everyone's interest to have readily available and inexpensive data.

	24-02-2005 16:50									#57
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quote: Originally posted by DanS I think "somewhat working" with regard to creating a multipolar world is a rather generous description. Trade issues are the exception to the rule. The EU has had several decades of integration effort with regard to some economic matters.

I'd say trade issues constitute a big share of international diplomacy, not just any exception, so I stand by my description of "somewhat working".

	24-02-2005 17:50									#58
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BTW, how exactly will Google Library work? Will the files be digitalized and stored by Google itself (thus making Google deciding the stored files on a commerical basis), or will Google make a dedicated search engine, partly linking to Google's own stored data (with ads) and partly linking to data stored on university/library servers (without ads)?

	24-02-2005 19:54									#59
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All of the materials will be digitized and stored on Google's servers. I don't think they will choose what to keep or what to throw away -- they'll keep all of it, as the libraries have done.

The libraries can do with the digitized materials what they wish. Google is giving them a complete digital copy of the works from the library's stacks.

	24-02-2005 20:05									#60
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quote: Originally posted by Spiffor I know it's our fault that our culture is currently on the losing side. There is a synergy (between institutions, companies, artists...) from the Anglo world that promotes its culture however. But this synergy is something every culturally active country would have, and the blame must be laid on those who don't fight back. I'm all for fighting back. But see my response to...

I blame the Academie Francaise.


You can't ring fence a language or culture- and I happen to think that English has benefited greatly from being such a promiscuous language, in terms of adopting words and phrases from other tongues.

Having a foot in both the Romance and Germanic languages camps helps too.

It still surprises me that despite British children routinely learning French as the first foreign language (or sole foreign language) for decades, French popular culture isn't better appreciated.

Which isn't to say that the Brits don't love France and the French, because they frequently do.

L'Entente Cordiale