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Alexander's Horse
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Panmunjon, hands up!
Jan 1970
time: 15:22
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Even if a woman like this wants to move in with you Ted.
Just say no.
 Attachment: korean actress.jpg
This has been downloaded 90 time(s).
Last edited by Alexander's Horse on 27-02-2005 at 17:45
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korn469
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Poetic Justic
Apr 1999
time: 00:22
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Boshko,
Are you serious about all the things you've typed? I live in America and I graduated college in December with a Communications degree and I have yet to find work. I'm moving today to a city (because I live in a fairly rural part of the states), but if that doesn't work out this sounds like something I'd enjoy doing.
Here's a couple of questions:
1) Do I need to speak anything besides english, like korean, chinese, japanese, etc? I can't though I wouldn't mind learning.
2) How hard is it to actually get hired by these places?
3) Do you need to pay for air fare to these countries?
4) Will they hire you while you still live in America, or must you travel there first?
5) What's the average number of hours you work in a given week?
6) Is it cold in Korea?
7) What are the living conditions like? I enjoy a starbuck's, a nice health club, and huge malls/super markets. I am completely provincial I guess, but would I be able to find those things in most of the places they have teachers?
8) You said you could save up around 1,000 dollars a month if you tried, so what's the average pay like?
Hmmm I can't think of anything else for the moment, but it does sound like something exciting to do. I'd appreciate it if you could answer my questions, and throw in anything else you could think of.
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mindseye
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A Yankee living in Shanghai
Apr 1999
time: 13:22
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Great post, Boshko, very informative!
A few notes from my experience ...
This type of work need not be considered only suitable for the freshly-graduated. Here in China I encounter teachers of all ages (including retired). I'm 45, and have met very many teachers older than me.
Being a little older can be a BIG advantage. In Asian culture, an older teacher is desirable because they have more of an air of authority. Also, being an adult with western business experience means you are a prime candidate for CORPORATE work, which usually pays the best.
There are some distinct trade-offs involved in working for schools. In China, universities and schools usually pay much less, but they usually provide housing and airfare (and maybe even food and other perks). This can be a nice scenario for those who only plan to live here for a year or less, and don't speak the local language.
Also, living in school-provided housing usually means strict guest policies (they must sign in/out, maybe no overnight guests), and often poor maintenance (DaShi's toilet experience is not uncommon). Also, teaching at schools may require course design, making and grading tests, correcting homework, and the like.
Going with a private business generally means higher pay, but caveat emptor applies to nowhere more than China, where contracts have little meaning. You must do your research, and I strongly suggest asking for references, ideally phone contacts for people who have worked there and returned back to your country. Short of that, you should at least check feedback in places like Dave's ESL cafe. Most of the horror stories I have head about teaching in China involve young people who just played "roulette" and signed up for a job knowing virtually nothing about it.
Most of the long-term teachers I know are, like me, freelancers, taking gigs at various places. IMO this is the best route. There is little or no work outside the classroom. You call your own shots. Don't like teaching children? Don't like Sunday morning classes? Fine. The pay is higher than any kind of contract work, you can work for as many places as you want, or combine teaching with other kinds of work (I've done a little voice acting and editing). You live where you want to, and you feel more like you have a real job and a residence, instead of being some sort of indentured servant who lives on the grounds and must obey your employer's will or risk having your visa yanked. Also, school work usually requires an ESL certificate (although in China simply printing up your own is probably good enough - hey, play by the local rules  ). However, freelaancers of course receive no benefits. If there is a week-long holiday (three/year in China) you lose a week's pay.
Visa requirements in China just changed again, now they are much more liberal, so school sponsorship is no longer much of a benefit. It's now much easier to come here on your own and freelance on a business visa.
In the China market, North American English is widely considered the "dialect" of choice. But since the demand is so high, Kiwis and Ozzies can easily get work here. There are droves of Australians in China, and as long as they don't start talking about their "trouble and strife" or hitting the "frog and toad" finding work is no problem. Carribeans, East Euros, South Africans - if you can make a shaky claim to being a "native" speaker, you're in. In big cities skin color is less and less of a barrier (although overseas Chinese still face obstacles).
As for money, it varies quite a bit depending on what kind of gig you're working and where you are in China (cost of living varies enormously).
Although I'm a freelancer, I do all of my work for a single private training center. Since I'm reliable, take my work seriously, and have experience as an American IT professional, I pretty much get as many hours as I want. I teach "spoken English" (more like conversation coaching), IELTS preparation (test many Chinese take prior to studying in Commonwealth countries), and Business English.
I typically work about 20 hours per week, but that's a little more than it sounds due to transportation time (many classes are only 2 hours) and the fact that teaching is a high-energy job (like chairing back-to-back meetings). However, since there is little work outside the classroom, I don't mind.
I live in a very nice middle class apartment in expensive Shanghai. I don't save as much as some other teachers, since I opt for a more comfortable lifestyle. You could split a decent apartment for half what I pay, so you can easily save much more depending on your lifestyle choices. Also, teachers who really like to work can earn a good deal more than I do.
You don't need to speak Chinese, although the more you know, obviously the easier your life will be. I know feelancers who speak minimal Chinese (in this case a girlfriend/boyfriend is indispensible).
I genuinely enjoy my work, the most rewarding job I have ever had. It seems like a miracle to wake up and not dread having to go toil in a cubicle for eight or ten hours while marking the hours before that brief weekend. I have fun with my classes, and often find my work energizing (as opposed to energy-draining back home). I meet and work with a wide variety of people, from middle school students to senior corporate management. And I really enjoy having a flexible, ever-changing schedule.
If you're at all interested in teaching in Asia, it's a fairly low-risk endeavor if you do a little research and preparation, and can easliy be downright lucrative if you are even minimally responsible. You can also do it to subsidize a major Asian vacation.
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mindseye
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A Yankee living in Shanghai
Apr 1999
time: 13:22
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Some of the other teachers in Asia have described their digs, in case anyone's interested, I'll add mine.
I live in a modern middle-class Shanghai apartment building not far from the center of downtown. The building has 24 stories, and is about 3 years old. It's a Chinese apartment buiding, not an expat compound.
The apt has 2 bedrooms, a big living room/dining room, balconey, and average-sized (for Asia) kitchen and bath. The size is about 120 m2 (my pocket translator says that's ~ 1,300 sq ft).
When I moved in, I became the first person to live in this unit, so everything was new. Nice hardwood floors, large bay windows with granite-topped window seats, nice floor and ceiling trim. The bathroom is full-on western style with modern shower. Kitchen has a built-in range-top gas stove (few ovens in China). Washing machine is in the bathroom, per Chinese custom. Clothes are dried outside on the balconey. My place even has a large closet, rather unusual in these parts. A/C-heat comes from wall-mounted units, as is typical in southern China (northern China has central heating for residences). The place was pre-wired for cable (broadband internet & tv).
Rent is 4,000 rmb/mo (~US$480/mo). My local friends are appalled that I "waste" so much money renting what they consider a family-sized apt.
Attachment: niceaptbldg.jpg
This has been downloaded 75 time(s).
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mindseye
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A Yankee living in Shanghai
Apr 1999
time: 13:22
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quote:
Originally posted by Lazarus and the Gimp
Remember the target audience, mindseye! What's the man-action like? |
 I didn't mention it because Boshko's totty summary was quite good and basically applied to China as well, even to the "man-action" category.
I think Chinese & Japanese are the most physically attractive people in the world, so just being around large swarms of them all the time is a major bonus, especially in the summer when shorts prevail. 
Maybe the most important difference is that most gay Chinese guys are in their 20s, gay life being a relatively recent development here. However, for many there is no problem dating older guys, so my romantic life underwent a dramatic improvement. If you are an average gay male foreigner in your 20s or 30s, you will never lack for dates with very desirable guys.
As for women, it's hard to imagine a better scenario for straight western guys of any age. A lot of Chinese woman like western men because they will treat their girlfriend/wife more like an equal, whereas Chinese guys expect to rule the roost. Also, Chinese men are usually very reluctant to marry a woman of higher education or income, or a divorced woman.
One of the distinctions of the Shanghainese is that they don't really have the cultural preference for male children (likely linked to Shanghai's relative modernity). This means that there are many successful, highly educated, high income women here. Also, the divorce rate is rapidly climbing (number one reason: hubby has a mistress, very common here).
So, if you don't mind women with high education/incomes, or don't mind if they're divorced, Shanghai is an outstanding place to find a really high-quality mate.
Bonus effect: as has been well-noted, the women and men) westerners like are often considered less attractive by locals. Additional bonus: Shanghai woman are often very cultured and fashionable. What the heck more could you ask for? There are so many that even a below-average looking gay guy in his mid-40s (hello!) is hit on by great-looking young women.
Last edited by mindseye on 28-02-2005 at 08:46
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Bosh
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Taehan Mingook
Jan 1970
time: 00:22
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quote:
I think Asia would be the probably only continent where one might sort one's girlfriends "Friday", "Saturday" and so on. Or even "days" and "evenings". Or need to employ and "odds and evens" system based on the calendar. |
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For example, I know its hard to believe, but large breasts are not considered attractive in some cultures which prefer a flat chest. Similarly slightly darker skin or long legs are a turn off for some. |
Exactly. IIRC I read an article about filipina main order bride profiles that emphasize light skin to a ridiculous degree, while whiteys don't really care about that so much. I think Japan is into tits a bit more than Korea, but then the Japanese are sick bastards who fetishize just about everything (excect for those who don't of course  ).
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When I was a young fellow, department store shop assistants used to slip their phone number in my pocket as I browsed. Does this happen in Cornwall? |
Don't have that happen to me. But I get girls in bars hitting on me, including a really scarily overly-made up drunk girl shoving her thigh into my crotch when I was three feet from my fiance. That would definately never happen back home
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It is also very important to know that Asia does have a "good girl" "bad girl" culture and one should not expect that a sexual relationship will result from every date, or even most. |
Ya, definately. I've heard stories of epic-blue balling from other foreign teachers. Also I've seen drunk girls on the street being propped up by their bfs, and my fiance has told me that they were probably pretending to be really drunk so that their bfs would take them to love motels where they could get to have sex without being a "bad girls."
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In other words, try and be a gentleman. |
Boshko's fiance  . Would never do anything to hurt her.
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And never, never let an Asian woman move in with you. |
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You forgot Thailand, Boshko |
No I didn't. It got written off with most of the rest of the world, since so many foreigners want to live there the English Teacher jobs are harder to come by and they pay ****. I wouldn't teach in Thailand unless I had a master's degree in an applicable field or a teaching certification and 2ish years of teaching experience at home, if you don't have that its just not worth it money/standard of living wise when East Asia is available IMHO.
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most people don't go there to make alot of money |
Right, so not an option if you have $20,000 of student loans and want to go home for Christmas occasionally. When I made this list, China was kind of the cut-off money wise and I mostly included since its ridiculously easy to get a job there even by East Asian English teaching standards so you have a nice bit of bargaining power and you get a very nice ratio of pay to cost of living in a lot of China.
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You think J-birds have big tits? Jesus, things must be bad in Korea... |
Yes 
I'm dead serious too.
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Are you serious about all the things you've typed? |
Yeah, pretty much. I joke a bit, but all the advice is completely honest. Will be sending you a PM with specific answers.
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This type of work need not be considered only suitable for the freshly-graduated. Here in China I encounter teachers of all ages (including retired). |
In Korea there's a definate age-bias in favor of younger teachers. Getting a job if you're over 35 is possible, but you'll have to be less picky once you hit the 35 wall. Koreans will think you're very wierd if you're that old and not married as well and your students will always call you grandfather.
From what mindseye is saying, if you're over 35 you'd do better in China than Korea.
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CORPORATE work, which usually pays the best. |
Good point, corporate work in Korea is a thing of beauty and they usually have older people, but then those jobs tend to require connections or a ****-load of qualifications.
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In China, universities and schools usually pay much less |
aaaah, I was basing my post on uni pay being about commensurate with private school pay (like it is in Korea, jobs usually pay about the same but you work a lot less at unis). What do private schools pay in China?
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Most of the long-term teachers I know are, like me, freelancers, taking gigs at various places. IMO this is the best route. |
But illegal in Korea, so not necessarily the best route here.
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who lives on the grounds and must obey your employer's will or risk having your visa yanked |
In Japan you own your own visa in almost all cases IIRC, which is a nice perk of working there.
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In the China market, North American English is widely considered the "dialect" of choice. |
Ah interesting, I thought Korea was the only one.
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But since the demand is so high, Kiwis and Ozzies can easily get work here. |
And apparently people for whom English is not their native language, judgeing by some resumes posted on Dave's that I read before they made you pay to read them
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27-02-2005 14:05
Change the locks! 
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