27-02-2005 04:17									#31
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Azazel, hahaha I'm sorry, your grandma MUST be traumatized from this experience.. I'd hate if bunch of Finns came here to do booze travel...wait.. they do... bu then again, they seem to be even more of an *******s when outside Finland. So yeah, sorry about that. Punch them in their bellies.

Raising the age limit does absolutely nothing. Teens who want to drink, they drink. If it was a standard in some country to keep it at 16, then so be it. It is true, EU is not here to liberate when it comes to laws and regulations. It is here to be .. one and similar... type of thing, which means going by the weakest link in the long run, and should become oppressive at some point. Good for some things, bad for the other things.

**** it's a fact of life. Teens drink. Teens kill, and do suicides, I should know. It's a fact of life. There is a limit when the society is there to stop it, and there is a limit where the society should nto intervene with protective rules because there are idiots in the bunch. If I want to drink my ass off, get blind and jump in front of a truck, it's my god damn constitutional right, and if it's not, it should be. If the truck is driven by a puppet of course and there are no other bystanders where the possible me jumping in front of a truck could cause more troubles to others.

EU can stay the hell out of 16 year old boozers if it's currently legal, just like they should stay out of many other things. This is the problem, EU WILL be the biggest bureocracy in the world if it already is not. It's all about papers, pushing papers, here get some papers, do you already have some papers? Here some for you, some for me, hey everyone let's push some papers. It really doesn't do anything, but it keeps few pussies employed. OF COURSE it's important when you ask THEM. They want to stay employed, pushing papers for you and me and the dude next door. Regulate things that really don't need regulating. Banana curve should be this and that, it's all BS. It just shows how they are nto effective doing the right things but they seem to be having time to do all this **** instea,d totally meaningless some of it is. VERY essential, if you ask from TRUE EURO or Euronite. But **** they are a step away from being full blown evil dictator types anyway, clothed in sheeps clothes, thinking high and mighty, being nothing but hypocrite bastards, wanting the power themselves, and blaming others who have it now. Nothing but hypocrites.

	27-02-2005 04:40									#32
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It wouldn't be so bad that teens drink if it weren't for the fact that they drink for all the wrong reasons. Alcohol is not a magical happiness elixir; it will make good times better when used cautiously, but if you're already miserable alcohol will just make you miserable, clumsy, prone to vomiting, and mean. And drinking done as an activity in its own right gets old really fast.

And they drink absolute crap too. I can understand cost restrictions, but it makes a lot more sense to drink less frequently and get something you can swallow without pinching your nose than to drink frigging Budweiser or something all the time. Blech.

	27-02-2005 04:42									#33
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I got drunk for the first time when I was in junior high.

cheap wine

	27-02-2005 05:05									#34
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it's a sad thing if they hope for those effects...

just learn your kid to be a little bit responsible and let him know it is not cool to be drunk, but rather weak, and normally they will be able to enjoy beer/wine/... without all the negative fuss.

Long live our Belgian beers

Shade

	27-02-2005 17:46									#35
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quote: just learn your kid to be a little bit responsible and let him know it is not cool to be drunk, but rather weak, and normally they will be able to enjoy beer/wine/... without all the negative fuss.

Exactly my point, this is on the PARENTS to decide and the EU should not interfere with the responsibilities of the parents, as this will generally make parents less feel the need to be responsible for what their kids do.
The EU should instead help parents with advice and education.

A ban will not work anyway, it will only force people away that have a moderate view on this and are not those subjected to the troubles. E.g. I got first drunk when I was 17 and I maybe got drunk 3 times until I got 18. I had lots of fun with and without alcohol, I just don't see how I can be compared to heavy depressed youth alcoholics and doing that comparison by age is just totally unfair.
If it was banned, I would have had to drink in uncontrolled area at my friends house or something like that, with much more worse things happening than at a pub where there are lots of (adult) people that could take care in case something goes wrong, or prevent it altogether if it goes too far.


And because someone mentions it, OFC you can have lots of fun w/o alcohol (just look at me) and I respect everybody's own descision to not drink alcohol (although I cannot agree that this is the shining good and brave descision), but here a greater authority tries to use it's new powers to force things on people and I can only see this as bad. If the EU is trying to standardize everything across all countries then I don't want to be part of it.
The Euro is a good thing IMO, but treating Swedes or Czech the same way as Italians is a very bad one and will not work out.

	28-02-2005 06:45									#36
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quote: Originally posted by Wycoff I've heard that Heine and Grolsch taste better in Europe, but I'll have to try that myself.

Nope, same piss...hmmm, if only it would taste like piss, that be some improvement.

	28-02-2005 08:08									#37
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Typically the kind of issue where the EU shouldn't reaer its head. Why the heck want the EU lawmakers legislate on something like this?

	28-02-2005 09:05									#38
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Hey, otherwise the EU might actually gather some support, can't have that now, can we.

	28-02-2005 09:20									#39
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quote: Originally posted by Spiffor Typically the kind of issue where the EU shouldn't reaer its head. Why the heck want the EU lawmakers legislate on something like this?

Exactly, I HATE nanny states, they distroy communities faster than Wal-Mart.

Giant, omniecent government:
Community-based Socialism/Syndicalism:

	28-02-2005 10:15									#40
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I'm already imagining that legislation has been born in the mind of some blonde Swedish woman working in an EU institution, who wanted to extend her native liberal whininess in the bulk of the EU where it doesn't apply.

I'm amazed that I can think something like that, but it seems the EU is ruled by two opposite kinds of morons:
1. The ayatollahs of free-market economy, who destroy everything that looks like a good economic idea in their wake, thanks to their charicatural inflexibility.
2. The leftist whiners who think they have now the power to regulate things like drinking age, nazi symbols or bull fighting just because they have a job in the EU.

Both are equally a shame to the institution (though I still prefer the leftist whiners, because A. they often come from parties I'm symapthetic to, and B. they ruin much fewer lives than our economic godzillas.

	28-02-2005 10:37									#41
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I don't drink. My secret is -- you don't actually have to drink to act drunk. Acting drunk is the funnest part of all, and the best time to enjoy it is when you are sober.

Vote Leo for World President!

	28-02-2005 10:47									#43
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Raising the drinking age isn't a very good solution for dealing with alcoholism. Kids will still alcohol, but the drinking will be less likely to take place at bars and more likely to occur at parties where there isn't supervision.

	28-02-2005 14:54									#44
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quote: I don't drink. My secret is -- you don't actually have to drink to act drunk. Acting drunk is the funnest part of all, and the best time to enjoy it is when you are sober.

Ahhh little kids do that already... More funny is when you pretend to be stoned when actually you aren't
Just staring at your fellow humans as they try to do conversation with you is hilarious. And you are even allowed to have a long and stupid looking grin on your face.

quote: Both are equally a shame to the institution (though I still prefer the leftist whiners, because A. they often come from parties I'm symapthetic to, and B. they ruin much fewer lives than our economic godzillas.

We need to do something against it! They are destroying our Project Dreamland!

	28-02-2005 15:16									#45
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Alcohol makes for great pictures.

I bet this loser woke up the next day wondering where his clothes were and why he had part of a Santa outfit on.

Attachment: bad_santa.jpg
This has been downloaded 53 time(s).

	28-02-2005 16:05									#46
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quote: Originally posted by DeathByTheSword a couple of years ago i would have been outraged but because of my length i could by beer when i was 14 so no problem here...

How long a d!ck do you need to be able to buy alchohol while still underage. Here in the states there are men that will give you alchohol for free if you show them your d!ck.

	28-02-2005 16:23									#47
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Maybe he was talking about the length of his arms.

	28-02-2005 16:25									#48
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quote: Leaked details from a separate report, due to be unveiled at the conference on Tuesday, are expected to show that Ireland has moved to the top of the European league for youth drinking.

Seriously though, what should be our national shame in being a nation of alcoholics has become a matter of national pride. As an Irishman abroad I am often expected to live up to the Irish hellraising reputation of being able to down 10 pints in a night. Naturally I'm greeted with surprise when I tell people I don't drink beer.

Raising the drinking age will do nothing to curb the problem of underage drinking. What we have to do is stop glamorizing it in certain parts of Europe. In Italy it is absurdly easy to get cheap drink no matter what your age is, and everyone indulges in a glass of wine. But that's as far as they take it, as it is considered socially unacceptable to get drunk in these countries.

Youth drinking can only be dealt with by changing the values of society, not bringing in more laws that will be flouted.

	28-02-2005 19:05									#49
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quote: Originally posted by our_man Youth drinking can only be dealt with by changing the values of society, not bringing in more laws that will be flouted.

	01-03-2005 00:45									#50
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Well that is what they try to do. Only that laws are the wrong way to change the behavior of a society.

	01-03-2005 01:24									#51
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I thought that drinking was a routine part of the family table in Europe? Don't most European Kids get introduced to wine or beer in early childhood?

	01-03-2005 01:42									#52
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There is a difference between drinking a drink or two with family and drinking with your mates in a boozer.

I would guess that the latter is the target of the law.

	01-03-2005 01:55									#53
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quote: Originally posted by Dr Strangelove I thought that drinking was a routine part of the family table in Europe? Don't most European Kids get introduced to wine or beer in early childhood?

Err, over here, we don't give wine to toddlers you know

	01-03-2005 03:05									#54
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Why waste good wine on toddlers when they can have cheap vodka or whiskey.

	01-03-2005 09:15									#56
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quote: Originally posted by Spiffor Err, over here, we don't give wine to toddlers you know

Actually I didn't know. What is the traditional age at which a Eurpean family would allow the kids to have wine with dinner? How will the law take custom into account?

	01-03-2005 09:20									#57
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Well, Europe is diverse enough so that I cannot give you anything precise. I guess we have some cultures that are more prudish in this regard than others.

From my experience (French family and friends that could be drinking), parents initiate to wine after 10, if they do it at all. Often, parents have a strict "no alcohol" policy for their children until they're 14 or something. But this experience comes from a very limited sample. It may be very different in other French provinces, or in other social classes.