04-03-2005 02:25									#31
	Re: Re: Sen. Byrd compares Republicans to Hitler! Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc Frist and the other Republicans are a bunch a pansies, if they really wanted to threaten the Democrats they would start ordering cots instead of allowing these soft fillibusters to keep happening.

Agreed, my point exactly. The dems wanna fillibuster I say let 'em. Byrd's getting up in years he prolly keel over.

	04-03-2005 02:29									#32
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Maybe the repugs don't change the rules of the senate because sentators know that in the future they might be the recipients of the problems themselves.

	04-03-2005 02:36									#33
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quote: Originally posted by GePap Maybe the repugs don't change the rules of the senate because sentators know that in the future they might be the recipients of the problems themselves.

I would agree with that assessment. OTOH the fact that they haven't forced a fillibuster shows them to be weak kneed little wuss babies. Shoulda happened back in Bush's first term.

	04-03-2005 02:42									#34
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At least he didn't compare them to the KKK. That would have really been over the top

	04-03-2005 02:43									#35
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quote: Originally posted by Sava Byrd

Is he one Southern Cracker you can live with Sava?

	04-03-2005 02:51									#36
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Hmm, something I didn't know about the ole byrd.

quote: In 1964 he opposed the Civil Rights Act by setting the Senate record for filibuster, stalling it for 14 straight hours. He was against U.S. President Harry S. Truman's integration of the military. He opposed the nomination of Thurgood Marshall to the United States Supreme Court in 1967--he wrote to FBI director J. Edgar Hoover, asking if there was information about Marshall's ties to Communists. Byrd led the segregationist members of the Senate in opposition to Marshall's nomination.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Byrd#Biography

Perhaps Byrd's affection for the filibuster is more for old times sake than a particular fear of Republicans.

	04-03-2005 02:55									#37
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I forgot him boycotting Thurgood Marshall

	04-03-2005 03:03									#38
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quote: Originally posted by Sprayber Is he one Southern Cracker you can live with Sava?

nah, he's a tool, I was just giving him a thumbs up for calling Repukes what they are...

	04-03-2005 03:24									#39
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quote: Originally posted by The diplomat In other words, Byrd has just said that Republicans are using similar legal techniques that Hitler used. How is he not comparing Republicans to Hitler?

You answered the question yourself. He's saying that, in the past, such actions have led to the arising of despotic regimes. Hitler used a lot of techniques in his rise to power. Some are still used by virtually everyone today (the big lie). Saying someone is using a technique another used is not the same as saying that person is the same as the other. That's a basic logical fallacy on your part.

quote: Besides, if Byrd is not comparing Republicans to Hitler, then why bring up Hitler at all? Why even mention Hitler when he is talking about senate rule procedures if he is not trying to make a connection?

Byrd brought up others as well, and it was because he wanted to drive home the point that the "nuclear option" reeked of despotic tendencies. It is not the same as saying those using it are "just like" Hitler.

quote: And you think that the "nuclear option" could lead to the same oppression of minority rights under Nazi Germany?

I said no such thing. But Byrd is using something every politician uses - it's called hyperbole. Gets people's emotions going, don't it?

Using Hitler--among others, note--was meant to rouse emotions. But stupid comments like "He's saying the GOP is like Hitler" will arise as well. I guess he should have been prepared for the firestorm of outrage from stupid people. Not smart on his part, to be sure.

quote: I am on the right, so obviously I must be regurgitating talking points from Right Wing HQ, right? It must be exhausting to have all that bias and prejudice inside.

That, and I saw the same thing you've written splashed on right-wing sites well before you posted. You could at least be original in your "outrage." You do realize that GOP counts on unthinking footsoldiers like you to spread their muck about, don't you? Patsy.

	04-03-2005 04:32									#40
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If the Republicans go for the "nuclear option" it will be like they took a piss on Jackson's grave.



Filibusters

Republicans whining

	04-03-2005 04:34									#41
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I don't see what the problem is. It's not like the GOP aren't Nazis bent on conquering the world.

	04-03-2005 04:57									#42
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I'm still waiting for the outrage from the right over VP Dick Cheney telling a senator on the Senate floor during Senate proceedings to, "Go f*ck [him]self."

	04-03-2005 06:25									#43
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quote: OTOH the fact that they haven't forced a fillibuster shows them to be weak kneed little wuss babies.

Forcing a filibuster isn't nearly as easy as it used to be. The Senate would have to alter the two-track system it uses for dealing with legislation in order for us to get the spectacle of Byrd filbustering for 14 straight hours again...

	04-03-2005 06:42									#44
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I don't think Byrd was referring to the holocaust, but to Hitler using his majority in the Reichstag to legislate the Reichstag out of existence...

Byrd is simply following on from de Tocqueville and J.S. Mill by warning against setting up a tyranny of the majority. He's saying that despite the fact that the Republicans have a majority in the senate, they still don't constitute the entire senate... which means a significant portion of the electorate voted Democrat. By instituting a majority rules system, the will of the minority (still a substantial amount of citizens) can be ignored. Byrd is simply saying that the minority should able to check and balance, and provide meaningful debate.

	04-03-2005 06:55									#45
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I thought the Nazis were national socialists and the Italians under Mussolini were the fascists. Anyway, there is a fascistic element in the GOP and can easily be seen/heard by their rhetoric. Constant references to opponents being out of touch with America, being anti-American, against American values, etc. The attempt to equate themselves with all that is American while their opponents are not smacks of fascism and repeatedly shouting down dissenters with the "my country right or wrong" rationale is nationalistic to the point of being fascistic. Of course, the Demoncrats have their socialistic wing, so a pox on both their houses.

	04-03-2005 06:57									#46
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quote: Constant references to opponents being out of touch with America, being anti-American, against American values, etc.

Except that it is true for many of the Republican's opponents, particularly the most virulent aspects of left...

	04-03-2005 07:04									#47
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True...and irrelevant to the subject matter and what I said

	04-03-2005 07:04									#48
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quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten quote: Constant references to opponents being out of touch with America, being anti-American, against American values, etc. Except that it is true for many of the Republican's opponents, particularly the most virulent aspects of left...

Do you think ultra-right fascist groups in the U.S. are any different? They encompass all three of those things quite nicely.

Fred Phelps can give anyone a lesson on being Anti-American.

	04-03-2005 07:09									#49
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I don't believe ultra-right fascist groups have as much influence over the policy of the Republican party as lefty moonbats do over the policy of the Democratic Party. You know the **** has hit the fan when Daily Kos is picking the head of the DNC...

	04-03-2005 07:12									#50
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Quiet Shatner!!!!

	04-03-2005 07:13									#51
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quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten I don't believe ultra-right fascist groups have as much influence over the policy of the Republican party as lefty moonbats do over the policy of the Democratic Party. You know the **** has hit the fan when Daily Kos is picking the head of the DNC...

So because Kos like Dean, they somehow selected him? Didn't have anything to do with the fact he was the most recognizable name and the only Democrat this election cycle to spark any excitment? Give me a break.

And Dean isn't exactly "looney left," as has been pointed out time and time again. Nor do I see any evidence Kos is particularly "moonbatty."

I guess since the Newsmax guys adore Bush, he's answering to them?

However, you do have the Religious Right pulling so many strings over at the GOP. Tell me, for whose benefit do you think all that talk was about a gay marriage constitutional ammendment?

	04-03-2005 07:14									#52
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DailyKos (which magically controls the Democratic grassroots) is the Democratic equivalent to "ultra-right fascist groups" in the GOP... That's right, dearie.

	04-03-2005 07:15									#53
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quote: Quiet Shatner!!!!

You know what we do to the reds on the U.S.S. Enterprise, don't you?

	04-03-2005 07:16									#54
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quote: Originally posted by Ramo DailyKos is a Democratic equivalent to "ultra-right fascist groups" in the GOP... That's right, dearie.

I always wondered if, despite his claims to be a "moderate" (snicker), dear Drake was also just swallowing GOP talking points whole. Looks like my suspicions are correct, give the claim about Kos.

	04-03-2005 07:18									#55
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quote: Originally posted by Ramo DailyKos (which magically controls the Democratic grassroots) is the Democratic equivalent to "ultra-right fascist groups" in the GOP... That's right, dearie.

Kos is probably worse. At least the fascists don't have a daily audience of 400,000 people to spread their ideology to...

quote: Looks like my suspicions are correct, give the claim about Kos.

Apparently you don't read Daily Kos.

edit:

quote: Nor do I see any evidence Kos is particularly "moonbatty."

It's becoming clear that you don't...

	04-03-2005 07:23									#56
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quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten Apparently you don't read Daily Kos.

No, I do. I'm curious to see some backup for your claims, though. Since you claim to read it, I'd love to see some--should be easy for you.

I suspect you just read what other blogs say about Kos and take as gospel. Or you just read Kos, disagree with it and label it as "extremist" because you can't handle it.

How about that Newsmax, eh? You are so conveniently forgetful!

	04-03-2005 07:26									#57
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quote: You know what we do to the reds on the U.S.S. Enterprise, don't you?

Worth it just to see you snogging Nichelle Nichols.

	04-03-2005 07:28									#58
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quote: I suspect you just read what other blogs say about Kos and take as gospel.

He's getting his info from ultra-right fascist blogs like Powerline and Instapundit, clearly.

	04-03-2005 07:29									#59
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quote: Originally posted by Ramo quote: I suspect you just read what other blogs say about Kos and take as gospel. He's getting his info from ultra-right fascist blogs like Powerline and Instapundit, clearly.

Ah Powerline, which recently made up out of thin air possible Democratic evil ploys and proceeded to get outraged by them, even though they had just concocted the ideas themselves!

	04-03-2005 07:31									#60
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quote: No, I do. I'm curious to see some backup for your claims, though.

Do I really need to find the post where Kos responded to the execution and public display of American contractors with "**** 'em"?

quote: I suspect you just read what other blogs say about Kos and take as gospel. Or you just read Kos, disagree with it and label it as "extremist" because you can't handle it.

It's not hard to see that Kos is extremist. All you have to do is compare him to the saner bloggers on the left (TPM, Kevin Drum, Matthew Iglesias) or the leading bloggers on the right (Instapundit, Captain's Quarters, Powerline). I'm not the only one to notice that the leftie blogosphere has a completely different dynamic than the rightie blogosphere, mainly because it's lead by purveyors of fringe opinion like Kos and Atrios.