08-03-2005 07:12									#31
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quote: Originally posted by DanS Margins are king. While Sony is sitting still, value is being destroyed.

Not necessarily true. When Apple was going for profit margins, Intel was going for volume.

	08-03-2005 08:09									#32
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quote: Originally posted by Azazel The only reason these bussinesses are low margin is because not enough products are sold.

IBM's computer business was soemthing like #3 in the world and it commanded a price primium. They had large numbers but the margin was still narrow because the PC business has virtually become a commodity business. That said I still wouldn't have sold the PC business simply because it was a core competancy of IBM. When people think of PCs IBM was one of the first brands people thought of so the company benifited from being in that business evenif it was a low margin business. Instead they should have cut costs by moving production to Asia and kept soldiering on.

	08-03-2005 08:48									#33
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quote: Not necessarily true. When Apple was going for profit margins, Intel was going for volume.

I don't know the decades-ago history of Intel's margins, but for the last decade or so, they have among the highest margins in corporate America.

Right now, Intel's gross margins are 56% and net margins are 22%. In other words, Intel is a money mint.

	08-03-2005 08:49									#34
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Currently, Samsung Electronics's market capitalization is greater than that of Sony's.

	08-03-2005 08:50									#35
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Does Samsung list its electronics unit seporate from the rest of the company? As I recall Samsung and the other Chabol are into every business under the sun.

	08-03-2005 08:53									#36
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Yes. Part of the reason why Samsung's doing so well--there's more transparency in the entire chaebol than in most other ones, and the Electronics division is listed separately, as well as operated independently.

Though, I think in this case, we're considering Sony's electronics business separate from its media business.

	08-03-2005 09:42									#37
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quote: Originally posted by DanS I don't know the decades-ago history of Intel's margins, but for the last decade or so, they have among the highest margins in corporate America. Right now, Intel's gross margins are 56% and net margins are 22%. In other words, Intel is a money mint.

That's after Intel gained market dominance. Thanks for proving my point though.

	08-03-2005 09:48									#38
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So what were Intel's historical margins, when it didn't have "market dominance"? You haven't presented any data on that to prove your point.

I suspect that you don't have the data and are just pulling your opinion out of your ass. I could be wrong though.

	08-03-2005 18:30									#39
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quote: Originally posted by DanS I don't know the decades-ago history of Intel's margins, but for the last decade or so, they have among the highest margins in corporate America. Right now, Intel's gross margins are 56% and net margins are 22%. In other words, Intel is a money mint.

Margins don't determine whether a company is a money mint. Return on investment does. And you can perfectly well have a low-margin business with a high REI.

	08-03-2005 20:30									#40
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quote: Originally posted by Oerdin Does Samsung list its electronics unit seporate from the rest of the company? As I recall Samsung and the other Chabol are into every business under the sun.

The samsung I rode in a few years ago (yes, a samsung car) was very nicely stylied, but according to my stepfather, sluggish.

	08-03-2005 20:54									#41
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Yeah, I saw several Samsung cars when I was in Korea but I seem to recall hearing Samsung sold it's car unit after the won crashed in the late 90's.

	09-03-2005 00:15									#42
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Samsung Motors is now majority owned by Renault, though Samsung still owns a third of it. It got most of its technology base from Nissan and, through them, Renault.

	09-03-2005 06:16									#43
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger One hypothesis has it that IBM is getting rid of anything that has a connection with Wintel. Their next thing is the Cell processor, which will run Linux. Certainly sounds intriguing.

There's also the hypothesis that aliens built the Pyramids.