14-03-2005 10:11									#31
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Democracy if (and only if) it agrees with me

	14-03-2005 10:14									#32
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara We should allow exploratory drilling for oil in the homes of GOP voters.

Believe it or not, this is allowed already.

	14-03-2005 10:15									#33
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quote: Originally posted by Sava imran is siding with the repukes

It's probably because I am one . I have no problem with drilling in ANWR.

	14-03-2005 10:15									#34
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quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten Democracy if (and only if) it agrees with me

Democracy

it's only the fairest, as of yet, way to choose leaders... but everything should not just be put up to a vote.

but I suspect the dopes in alaska are evil and get boners from destroying the environment just like you and your repuke ilk

	14-03-2005 10:16									#35
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quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten There is no alternative to oil at this time. I prefer to make decisions based on how things are, not how we might want them to be...

Hence my Manhattan Project/Apollo Program analogy. I'm suggesting that we could have an alternative in a relatively short period of time if we made having such an alternative a national priority. Instead, our only priority is "more oil," which will mean more wilderness destruction, more undesireable alliances, and more dubious military adventures for years to come. We can do better than that.

	14-03-2005 10:17									#36
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui It's probably because I am one . I have no problem with drilling in ANWR.

Of course, your a Neo-Con extraordinare.

	14-03-2005 10:19									#37
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actually, I changed my mind... I don't give a **** about anwr... let the repukes rape the earth... more bad karma for them

	14-03-2005 10:20									#38
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quote: I'm suggesting that we could have an alternative in a relatively short period of time

FYI, we already have such alternatives. They are just politically unacceptable in our NIMBY culture.

	14-03-2005 10:21									#39
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quote: Originally posted by Odin Of course, your a Neo-Con extraordinare.

There are socialist neo-conservatives as well.

	14-03-2005 10:22									#40
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quote: Hence my Manhattan Project/Apollo Program analogy. I'm suggesting that we could have an alternative in a relatively short period of time if we made having such an alternative a national priority.

And I'm saying such a scenario is fantasy. It could be true. Then again, it could not. Either way, when making a decision on whether or not to allow oil exploration in ANWR, I would prefer to leave speculation about the development of future fuel technologies out of the equation...

	14-03-2005 10:28									#41
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Interestingly enough, I ran into an article a month or so ago that talked about how the Neo-cons (and I use this term precisely, not to refer to anyone who voted for Bush or anyone else I don't like) have been looking at ways to use less oil and to investigate alternatives to oil. The gist was that we would be denying a major market to the ME dictatorships, and hence force a wave of democratic revolutions. Perhaps this will end up being the impetous necessary to actually devote serious resources to alternative energy sources.

	14-03-2005 10:33									#42
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quote: Originally posted by DanS FYI, we already have such alternatives. They are just politically unacceptable in our NIMBY culture.

Actually, I think THAT it has less to do with our NIMBY culture than it is to do with Three-Mile Island. Try to buld a nuclear power plant and you'll get a bunch of eco-nuts exaggerating the dangers of nuclear power. Hell, we are such a scientifically ignorant society that you could get people to ban water if you called it by it's chemical name (dihydrogen monoxide).

	14-03-2005 13:47									#43
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quote: Originally posted by Rufus T. Firefly It took us 4 years to go from zero to the creation of the first atomic bomb. It took us 9 years to go from a space program that was a joke to one that put a man on the moon. We're America, dammit! I can't believe we can't come up with an alternative to oil. We're just not trying, or not trying hard enough.

It's entirely possible the laws of phsyics just won't allow us to get energy sources as cheap and convenient (in liquid form) as oil/gasoline.

	14-03-2005 23:58									#44
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Why does anyone care about ANWR, other than oil? For Chrissakes, oil is more important than a few animals. Animals are a renewable "resource", oil, not so much

	15-03-2005 00:35									#45
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canada has oodles of oil, it just isnt economically viable to get it...yet... i say we drain the ME first

	15-03-2005 00:48									#46
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drain the ME, then we conquer Canada. I like it.

	15-03-2005 22:01									#47
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quote: Originally posted by Odin Actually, I think THAT it has less to do with our NIMBY culture than it is to do with Three-Mile Island. Try to buld a nuclear power plant and you'll get a bunch of eco-nuts exaggerating the dangers of nuclear power.

What's worse are the idiots who underplay the real problems of nuke power. I have a friend who was a nuclear technician. I know some not too pleasant things about American nuke plants. Our indutry and government doesn't treat nuke tech seriously enough to be allowed to touch the stuff.

	16-03-2005 01:46									#48
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara There's not enough oil there to justify destroying the largest free roaming herd of animals in North America. Only the most wildly specualtive estimates have it worth anything. The vast majority of estimates have it quite low.

The sheep herd known as Demonrats will be destroyed. OMFG!

	16-03-2005 01:50									#49
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Seriously I have heard the arguements that there isn't much oil to be had, point of fact my wife who wonce upon a time wasinthe biz claims so as well. My point is let the conglomerates explore and see if anything pans out. Until such time as known reserves numbers are finalized this is simply pissing and moaning w/o known benefits/costs by either side.

	16-03-2005 02:48									#50
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara What's worse are the idiots who underplay the real problems of nuke power. I have a friend who was a nuclear technician. I know some not too pleasant things about American nuke plants. Our indutry and government doesn't treat nuke tech seriously enough to be allowed to touch the stuff.

wrong. Nuclear power plants are very safe. It's more safe than bringing in liquified natural gas (LNG). Though there hasn't been a major incident since WW2 in Ohio. We have nearly perfected transporting that stuff.

The reason nuclear power is not practical is because of the cost, and lack of availability of uranium. And most importantly the waste.

Nuclear waste is why I'm against nuclear power (despite having worked in navy nuclear power plants). We still have no way of dealing with the waste we are producing. My ship underwent nuclear refueling and complex overhaul. Our reactor cores are still sitting in Newport News shipyard I believe- in a tank of water.

Nuclear fission power is not practical for wide scale use.

	16-03-2005 02:54									#51
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We should send every Republican member of the House and Senate a copy of The Lorax.

Surely if 5 year old kids can understand the value of environmentalism from that book, a bunch of rethugs can.

Or perhaps I'm giving them too much credit...

	16-03-2005 03:56									#52
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quote: Originally posted by Agathon We should send every Republican member of the House and Senate a copy of The Lorax. Surely if 5 year old kids can understand the value of environmentalism from that book, a bunch of rethugs can. Or perhaps I'm giving them too much credit...

I suspect they understand the value of environmentalism, but just don't give a ****.

	16-03-2005 04:56									#53
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quote: Nuclear fission power is not practical for wide scale use.

Too late. It already constitutes 20% of the electricity supply in the US.

	16-03-2005 05:41									#54
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Pebble-bed reactors

	16-03-2005 06:09									#55
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Pebble-bed reactors

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	16-03-2005 06:11									#56
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quote: Originally posted by Rufus T. Firefly We're America, dammit! I can't believe we can't come up with an alternative to oil. We're just not trying, or not trying hard enough.

There are lots of alternatives to oil but they all cost more then oil. Even at the current high prices oil is the cheapest option by far.

	16-03-2005 06:12									#57
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Global warming

Nuclear power

	16-03-2005 06:23									#58
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Petroleum Oil
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	16-03-2005 07:10									#59
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Why is it that normal people see a beautiful example of nature's bounty, but Republicans can only see a potential blackened, stinking wasteland bereft of all life?

	16-03-2005 07:12									#60
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