21-07-2005 17:18									#151
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Um... I tried to play the turn this morning.

I conquered someone's last base, got he capture and interrogate message, then the replay popped up, the game asked for my password again, and then quit to the main menu.

I have to go out the door for work at the moment... but... what happened?

	21-07-2005 17:23									#152
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The PBEM player eliminate rule:

If you come to a situation where your opponent is so endangered you can kill him on the next turn, you should:

1.NOT attack his bases on that turn or at least leave one garrison per each base you might have captured/destroyed.
2.Notice player of the fact he could've been dead last turn.

Player must obliterate all bases and disband (he may not hand them over or use as he officially have been defeated, works the same for tech, ECs and any other resources he might transfer) all units in the following turn and send the turn on.
For him the game has ended.


Please send me your turn, so I can check out if AOK.

	21-07-2005 17:35									#153
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Ummmm? Thats never happened to me before. In a game among friends, Morgan conquered the Uni and the Uni was correctly restarted as it was still early game.

	21-07-2005 17:41									#154
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Well, I don't remind did this game have "do or die" off, if it's so, Fosse could try again to eliminate him, but officially even if "do or die" is off if by his first attempt, he gets "captured&interrogated" screen, than that's it for that player.

And that's one of the main PBEM rules, Senethro.

	21-07-2005 18:07									#155
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

And I am the recipient of this attack. Because Fosse didn't indicate his intention, though he has been aggressive, I assumed I had another turn left (maybe 2) and played accordingly.

However this wasn't my best game and doubling up starting units, on a small map was not in my best interests because I needed space and turns to find those starter Mws, which could have helped my defence. By the time I found one it was too late.

	21-07-2005 20:10									#156
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I've never been in this position before after a year of PBEM and have not seen this when digging around on 'poly forums, so thanks for explaining the rule.

I take it this is another example of poor PBEM implementation, and the rule is the community workaround?

Hercules, yes it's you. By "indicate intention" do you mean according to this rule? As it is I could not have taken the final base last turn, but am now in place to. Would that mean that last turn I should have told you what's up, or just with a note on this turn?

I'll send the turn, unplayed to binTravkin as soon as I can (probably not until I get home) so he can verify my position. Then I'll play it without taking the base and send it on its way. That should take care of everything, rigth?

Also, thanks Hercules for being my first real military enemy in a PBEM. I have no doubt I would have had a much worse time of it if you'd gotten those worms sooner.

Sorry for the hold up, guys.

	21-07-2005 21:47									#157
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Well I knew you were in the vicinity, it was a question of how long the fungus would delay you. Also whether you could kill the base defender(s) but not be able to enter the base?

	22-07-2005 04:15									#158
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I have e-mailed binTravkin the turn files so he can take a look and make sure I am doing this correctly. As soon as I get the word from him I'll send the turn to Senethro.

Regards,
Fosse

	22-07-2005 13:46									#159
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*Seal Of Approval*

Hercules should obliterate the base and disband all units upon opening the turn.

	23-07-2005 03:51									#160
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Turn sent to Senethro.

	23-07-2005 05:35									#161
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Fosse you haven't learnt.: it is not your call atm.

	23-07-2005 05:37									#162
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I need clarification on 1 or 2 points

	24-07-2005 07:27									#163
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I didn't make the call. BinTravkin sent me an e-mail - and posted above - that it's all up to muster. If I can clarify any of your points let me know because I'd be glad to.

	25-07-2005 04:58									#164
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Well I emailed BinT with my queries.

	25-07-2005 06:50									#165
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Can I play my turn yet? :/

	30-07-2005 23:09									#166
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Well, how are things? Hercules, has binT answered your questions or are we still waiting on that?

	31-07-2005 16:53									#167
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He hasn't answered my questions. He's on holiday I think.

What I propose is to replay the turn with slight differences. If Fosse can still destroy the base, then I will go back once again and play the turn as self distruct.

	31-07-2005 18:02									#168
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

I've infiltrated both of you and I can see whats going on :P

Trust me that he can do it.

	31-07-2005 20:27									#169
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Well, the first time I had a problem it was because I DID destroy the base, activating the PBEM bug by which the game declared me winner and quit to the main menu.

I sent binT a copy of the turn in which I had destroyed your last garrison and still had units in place to move into the base. I also sent him a copy of the turn I've sent to Senethro - in which I leave your unit alone so that you can use him to obliterate. Between those two turns he sent the "Seal of Approval" message.

Hercules, what slight differences are you suggesting? From what I understand I HAVE to leave you with the garrison in the base. I'm willing to do whatever to move the game along, and I DO want everyone to feel secure that there's been no hanky-panky, so I don't mind "showing my work," so to speak.

I don't know how long binT's holiday is. Anyone?

	31-07-2005 21:54									#170
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

I have another unit outside the base that can move into the base and I have a MW that could do useful damage.

My point is that moving that other unit into the base may delay the inevitable by a turn, (in otherwords, you may or may not kill this additional garrison unit, but may not have sufficient move points left to take the base, this turn) which I feel is critical to the final outcome.

If you don't have enough moves left then it would mean that next time you would declare but not this.

	31-07-2005 21:57									#171
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If you couldn't take the base with my changes, then it would be likely you could the following turn. I would accept that and proceed to self destruct asap as per the rules at that turn.

	31-07-2005 22:44									#172
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Neither of the other units were able to prevent me from taking the base in 2116.

I sent binT the turn as I received it, a save of the turn with your garrison destroyed and my units' with moves remaining to take the base, and then a copy of the turn I later sent to Senethro - with your garrison still intact and my units outside the base so that you can obliterate when you receive the turn.

Below are screenshots taken after reloading the second .sav I sent binT - the one with your unit gone and my units with moves left. I opened the file, snapped the screenies, then closed SMAX before the replay.

I'm sure that we canwait until binT comes back to answer your questions more specifically, though. I don't want to post any more detailed images here. But if you like, Hercules, I can send you an image of the gameplay so you can see how it worked out.

Best,
Fosse

Attachment: sio1.jpg
This has been downloaded 29 time(s).

	01-08-2005 03:47									#173
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I am not sure, I will replay the turn from a slightly different perspective and if Fosse can destroy the base, well oK.

	01-08-2005 03:54									#174
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I'm not sure what that proves. Wouldn't he now be at the mercy of the random number generator?

	01-08-2005 04:12									#175
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Maybe., that's how the fungus operates. That why it is difficult to call., that's why I ask.

	01-08-2005 06:24									#176
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I am confused Herc. The question is not whether Fosse will be able to take your base- he did. It was destroyed. You moved your units, he moved his & we have proof that he was able to destroy your base. Therefore you should self-destruct it given the replayed turn. The only exception to this is if you are intimating that Fosse has acted illegally in some way & you need a judgement on that basis. Is this in fact the case? if not, let's get on with it.

Hobbes

	01-08-2005 15:49									#177
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: have another unit outside the base that can move into the base and I have a MW that could do useful damage. My point is that moving that other unit into the base may delay the inevitable by a turn, (in otherwords, you may or may not kill this additional garrison unit, but may not have sufficient move points left to take the base, this turn) which I feel is critical to the final outcome. If you don't have enough moves left then it would mean that next time you would declare but not this.

quote: I am confused Herc. The question is not whether Fosse will be able to take your base- he did. It was destroyed. You moved your units, he moved his & we have proof that he was able to destroy your base. Therefore you should self-destruct it given the replayed turn. The only exception to this is if you are intimating that Fosse has acted illegally in some way & you need a judgement on that basis. Is this in fact the case? if not, let's get on with it. Hobbes

In short - If Fosse did kill the base in his turn and I as CMN could repeat it with 100% efficency (on any circumstances), Hercules has lost this game.

If you had units outside the base it does not count (even if you had a MK3 battle ogre) as in normal SP game you'd be dead.

It's just this programming error which makes us state such rules, otherwise we wouldn't even be talking about this, just some *bahbah* and then *goodbye*.


This week has been wasted if you didn't do any more turns.

	02-08-2005 01:51									#178
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If Fosse knew he could take my base he should have said so the turn before he took it (however I didn't know, he didn't know) . His not saying so led me to believe I had another year left.

If he had said he could destroy my base I would have played slightly differently. My question is would that different play have made a difference as to when the base is taken. It's a simple question.

	02-08-2005 03:09									#179
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And he would not be at the mercy of a randon number generator.

	02-08-2005 04:22									#180
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quote: Originally posted by Hercules If Fosse knew he could take my base he should have said so the turn before he took it (however I didn't know, he didn't know) . His not saying so led me to believe I had another year left. If he had said he could destroy my base I would have played slightly differently. My question is would that different play have made a difference as to when the base is taken. It's a simple question.

The reason Fosse did not say he could destroy your base was because he did not know about the bug. Had he known he would have told you.

HOWEVER he does not have to tell you that he can destroy your base so that you can play differently. THIS IS NOT MEANT TO BE A WARNING BUT RATHER A STATEMENT OF FACT. He CAN destroy your base. We know this because he DID destroy your base.

PLAY THE DAMN TURN. THIS IS RIDICULOUS.

Hobbes