20-03-2005 18:03									#31
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Looks good, except there are 2 question marks.

First of all, 512MB worth of RAM? You are going by the bare minimum here. Not a good idea.

Antoher thing, your graphics card, 6600GT is the freaking MINIMUM these days. That won't last for 3 years. You will be able to play the games that are out now, but you know how it goes. And looking at your choice for mobo and processor etc, seems like you are semi serious about not wanting to update right after summer, so I say you need a better graphics card and another 512MB worth of RAM.

Anyone who would claim otherwise doesn't know **** about anything.

	20-03-2005 20:04									#32
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

The reason I am not getting 1 gig of ram is because I already own 512mb.

6600GT is not the minimum, the minimum these days would be a GeForce FX, THAT's the minimum. A 6600 GT would be average, a 256Mb X800XT PCI-Express or a GF 6800 GT Ultra would be the max today.

	20-03-2005 20:11									#33
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Ok, I upgraded the video card to a GF 6800 GT, it cost twice as much as the card I was ging to get, but I might aswell utilize the Mobo's Express Support.

	20-03-2005 20:11									#34
	Get a bigger avatar today!

No, 6600GT IS the minimum. If you buy it today, it's the minimum. Hey, maybe it was enough few months back, but now it isn't if you're looking into the future. That is the minimum, ok? 6800GT Ultra would be nice, yes, but then again it's a bit more on the expensive side as you well know . However, it's still not the max today, but say for normal PC yeah it could be the ... upper limit. But if you're into gaming, I feel that 6600GT is THE minimum. You see, you still can manage with it, certainly today you can manage just well, tomorrow too, but in a year or two, it becomes obsolete in the gaming side of things. You can stiull play, yes, but you won't get to enjoy 'how it was meant to be played' type of side of it.

But if that's enough for you, then sure, it'll do just fine in a year or two as well.

	20-03-2005 21:01									#35
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Well I just replace my whole setup about once every 3 or 4 years...this one is well over a year and still going strong so I expect it will be nearer the latter at the moment...

	20-03-2005 21:19									#36
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

You got a 80 GB HDD there... in my favorite store, the difference between 80 GB and 120 GB is very little. You may want to check that out, maybe it's worth going for 120.

	20-03-2005 21:20									#37
	Get a bigger avatar today!

RIght, if the difference is 10 or 20 bucks, go for the bigger. Depending what you do with your computer, space is something you run out of constantly.

	20-03-2005 21:25									#38
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Yeah, you may not be a HDD space hog, like some people are (I can't fill up my 90 GB), but you'll run out of it eventually, and more is always better. 50% more capacity for 20 extra bucks is damn good.

	21-03-2005 00:12									#39
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by Pekka No, 6600GT IS the minimum. If you buy it today, it's the minimum. Hey, maybe it was enough few months back, but now it isn't if you're looking into the future. That is the minimum, ok? 6800GT Ultra would be nice, yes, but then again it's a bit more on the expensive side as you well know . However, it's still not the max today, but say for normal PC yeah it could be the ... upper limit. But if you're into gaming, I feel that 6600GT is THE minimum. You see, you still can manage with it, certainly today you can manage just well, tomorrow too, but in a year or two, it becomes obsolete in the gaming side of things. You can stiull play, yes, but you won't get to enjoy 'how it was meant to be played' type of side of it. But if that's enough for you, then sure, it'll do just fine in a year or two as well.

YOU TRULY DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT. I have a BFG GEForce FX5900 and I expect this thing to last at least another year. The 6600GT is not the minimum. You must be nuts to say such a thing. That's crazy. IF you are into gaming, you would know it is actually the FX5700 Ultra that is the minimum. My card plays Doom 3 with great framerates and Far Cry all maxed out fine. So please think about your comments before you make them. And you are talking to a gamer here.

	21-03-2005 00:12									#40
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Solver You got a 80 GB HDD there... in my favorite store, the difference between 80 GB and 120 GB is very little. You may want to check that out, maybe it's worth going for 120.

Or get two 80GB hard-drives to run them in racks.. like what I do..

	21-03-2005 01:37									#41
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by Giancarlo YOU TRULY DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT. I have a BFG GEForce FX5900 and I expect this thing to last at least another year. The 6600GT is not the minimum. You must be nuts to say such a thing. That's crazy. IF you are into gaming, you would know it is actually the FX5700 Ultra that is the minimum. My card plays Doom 3 with great framerates and Far Cry all maxed out fine. So please think about your comments before you make them. And you are talking to a gamer here.

Jesus Fez, have a ritalin or something!

	21-03-2005 01:38									#42
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Giancarlo, you are owned by default. I hate to pull ranks but I'm the computer scientist and gamer, where you are gamer who reads PC magazine. We are looking into the future here. He said, he doesn't want to buy another one in a year or longer. That means, he needs to get a GOOD graphics card. That means, you don't go for the old technology, but the new one. That means 6600GT IS THE MINIMUM. 6800GT Ultra if he has money and wants to be a big spender.

Just because you can run doom 3 nicely now doesn't mean it's the good choice for the _future_. Just because you can run your applications with 512MB doesn't mean it's enough in the future.

We are talking about a great computer here, and gaming. If you are buying a new set, and getting THAT mobo and THAT processor, you need to match it up with same level graphics card, what's the point of having bottleneck there?

I know what I'm talking about.

	21-03-2005 01:56									#43
	Support Apolyton

I wouldn't go with the PCI-e version at all... I paid $400US for the AGP version of the BFG FX6800 Ultra 256mb video card. IMO, PCI-e is just not worth the extra $300 or so you have to pay for the equivalent card.

Go with the 3500+, not the 3200+...

make sure you have a Gig... from what you posted you have a 512 and are buying another...

Get a more powerful power supply. At least 480W... preferrably over 500.

Also, that hard drive is a bit small. You could get at least 160GB for not that much more.

My current setup:

Asus A8V Deluxe mobo with Athlon 64 3500+
1 GB Kingston PC3200 DDR400 dual channel RAM
BFG FX6800 Ultra 256MB OC
Antec TruePower 550W PSU
WD 250GB HD @ 7200RPM 133/8mb cache
Maxtor 160GB HD @ 7200RPM 133/8mb cache
SB Audigy 2 ZS Platinum
ViewSonic VP201b 20.1 inch LCD monitor

my advice Snoopy: save money on the video card and mobo by going with AGP vs PCI-e... get the 3500+... get a better PSU... get a bigger HD

also... Pekka

Giancarlo: your vid card is holding you back... I had an FX5900 with my current setup, then I got the 6800 ultra... holy ****, my FPS is insane. I play every game at 1600x1200 with full AA and ASF with highest settings. Yes, you can play all the games with a 5700 or 5900, but if you want best performance on highest settings, you need to get at minimum a 6600GT.

	21-03-2005 02:15									#44
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Sava, right on

btw, nice computer..

On the HDD, really really depends what he does with the computer, I mean if he doesn't download movies and music and games and stuff, 80 gigs is enough. But then again, if there's any activity going on, it's something he should take care of now as far as getting at least 120 or 160 one, because the difference in money is not that big. And he'd have to run to a store to get a new one in no time anyway. Saves trouble.

And getting PSU is not the place to be saving money. There are LOTS of crappy PSUs, that leads into a world of ****. This is very known, as I can say I didn't take this seriously enough myself back in the days, and now it's even more important when devices eat some much... there are some labels guaranteed to not work for you in the long run, in here cheaper becomes more expensive.

	21-03-2005 06:43									#45
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Pekka Giancarlo, you are owned by default. I hate to pull ranks but I'm the computer scientist and gamer, where you are gamer who reads PC magazine. We are looking into the future here. He said, he doesn't want to buy another one in a year or longer. That means, he needs to get a GOOD graphics card. That means, you don't go for the old technology, but the new one. That means 6600GT IS THE MINIMUM. 6800GT Ultra if he has money and wants to be a big spender.

I am looking into the future. And I'm saying the 6600GT is just fine for several years. But the 6950 Ultra is coming out soon, and this will push the 6800GT down in price, so I suggest waiting just a bit.

	21-03-2005 06:46									#46
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

yes yes.. 6600GT will be fine I don't know several years though, but for quite a bit still. And yes, 6800GT will go down in price, and it becomes the wanted one. As for me, I'd wait a bit for it to come down as well, but I would not buy an older card so that I could buy a new card in a year or so. THat's why I say 6600GT is the minimum, because you can have it for a while and not have to upgrade it soon. I don't see other cards lower than that being in the same position, but that's just me, it's not a fact, it's just personal opinion..

	21-03-2005 06:49									#47
	Remove this text

Sorry I was mad earlier. It is just that I have been dumped. Anyways, the 6800 should come down in price once the 6950 Ultra comes out.. and it should be pretty soon...

	21-03-2005 06:52									#48
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

You were mad? Nah, no worries, I didn't even notice. I'm used to heated battles in the computer world .

Yeah I'm waiting for that too myself, because I'm getting a new one myself, and I've had my eyes on that for a while now.

	21-03-2005 06:57									#49
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Sorry to hear that Gian. It must have been a bad week, take care of yourself

	21-03-2005 06:58									#50
	Tired of ads?

quote: Originally posted by Whaleboy Sorry to hear that Gian. It must have been a bad week, take care of yourself

Just one bad thing after another...

	21-03-2005 07:06									#51
	Got spare money?

Ups and downs, as hard as it is to think of it so coldly now, things do improve and its because of times like these that we end up appreciating them. You'll be alright dude

	21-03-2005 07:11									#52
	Get a bigger avatar today!

quote: Originally posted by Pekka No, 6600GT IS the minimum.

You are insane. No game developer will straddle himself with such silliness. Doing so is just committing financial suicide.

	21-03-2005 07:27									#53
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger You are insane. No game developer will straddle himself with such silliness. Doing so is just committing financial suicide.

fine then... go buy a geforce fx 5200, have fun playing on 640x480 with minimum settings getting 30 fps...

	21-03-2005 07:29									#54
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by Sava fine then... go buy a geforce fx 5200, have fun playing on 640x480 with minimum settings getting 30 fps...

You get less than 30fps in films, yet I don't see people complain about them.

Your TV has much less resolution than 640x480 and has a lower frame rate than 30fps. Have you stopped watching it?

	21-03-2005 07:33									#55
	Increase Your PM Length

quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger You get less than 30fps in films, yet I don't see people complain about them.

you obviously aren't much of a gamer then

quote: Your TV has much less resolution than 640x480 and has a lower frame rate than 30fps. Have you stopped watching it?

I don't watch that much TV. But watching TV on my PC, I can definitely tell the difference between lower quality broadcasts and HDTV.

	21-03-2005 07:35									#56
	Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by Sava you obviously aren't much of a gamer then

Subjective difference isn't very convincing. Now if there is any sort of academic research in the area, that would be a much better piece of evidence.

	21-03-2005 07:39									#57
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger Subjective difference isn't very convincing. Now if there is any sort of academic research in the area, that would be a much better piece of evidence.

why do we need "academic research"?

Simple anecdotal experiences are quite enough.

It's like the difference between driving a Yugo then a Ferrari... I don't need research to tell me which experience is better.

	21-03-2005 07:41									#58
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: Originally posted by Sava It's like the difference between driving a Yugo then a Ferrari... I don't need research to tell me which experience is better.

Yeah, it's the same when you get stuck in a traffic jam.

	21-03-2005 07:44									#59
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger Yeah, it's the same when you get stuck in a traffic jam.

not when you are sitting in a nice leather chair listening to your favorite music on a killer sound system...

	21-03-2005 07:49									#60
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: Originally posted by Sava not when you are sitting in a nice leather chair listening to your favorite music on a killer sound system...

Nothing prevents you putting a killer sound system inside a Yugo. Leather upholstery has been found to be less than satisfactory - cold in the winter, hot in the summer.