22-03-2005 14:46									#61
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quote: DanS defending the right of the State to take people off life support to save money: priceless...

Quite sad, really...

	22-03-2005 15:09									#62
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quote: Europe looks forward to years of generic growth [Published: 14 October 2002 Source: Urch Publishing] The generic drug sector in Europe is poised for significant growth over the next decade as healthcare systems implement initiatives to reduce costs and a number of top selling drugs come off-patent. By 2005 generics will account for 75% of all prescriptions in Western Europe and the market will reach more than US$21bn by 2007, according to a new report from Urch Publishing Ltd. The European generics drugs market is growing rapidly and is estimated to account for approximately 14% of the total European pharmaceutical market, valued at US$12bn in 2002. Germany is the market leader estimated at US$5.7bn in 2002. The UK is in second place with an estimated market value of US$2bn. Spain and Italy are forecast to make significant in-roads in terms of generic growth, which will be mainly as a result of government cost-containment pressures. The Dutch and Scandinavian markets are also expected to show sustained growth in line with growth of total markets and their positive disposition towards generics. Although the cost of prescription medicines makes up for a very small fraction of total healthcare expenditure, one way to reduce spending on pharmaceuticals is to employ a generic substitution protocol. This will facilitate growth in the generic drugs sector along with other industry drivers and help to keep pharmaceutical costs down. Generic substitution is a target for healthcare policy makers for this reason, says the report European Generic Drug Markets - growth to 2007, by Tim Atkinson. Government policy change is a powerful influence on spending in pharmaceutical markets as evidenced by a number of savings through cost-containment measures between 1996-1999 including: Austria's government pharmaceutical cost reduction introduced in 1997 which was designed to save Sch1bn (US$84.5 million) The French government stated that generic use of drugs could lead to a healthcare cost saving of FRF2-4bn (US$340-680 million) German government's efforts in 1997 resulted in a decline in the proportion of expenditure by the sickfunds on pharmaceuticals from 16.4% in 1991 to 13.8% in 1997. Prescribing of generics saved the sickfunds DEM3bn (US$1.7 billion) in 1996 Spain's Modification to the Medicines Law which was passed on 10 February 1997 aimed to create a generics market worth PTE300bn (US$2.1 billion) by 2000, leading to savings of PTE75bn (US$0.5 billion)

Thats from an industry newsletter

http://www.inpharm.com/External/Inp...0-10472,00.html

And so the generic market marches on

Except in the USA where the consumer gets stiffed by bad drug laws

	22-03-2005 20:24									#63
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quote: I understand why drug companies, amongst the most profitable in the world, make this cockamamie argument but I'm surprised you buy it, lol.

It's a matter of mathematics. The big drug companies spend about 20% of revenues on R&D -- higher even than most software companies. If you reduce the revenues, then the R&D will be reduced in likewise fashion. Fewer drugs will be discovered and brought to market.

Regarding Lipitor R&D costs, the company has several failures to every success. Lipitor profits must be considered in this context.

	22-03-2005 20:33									#64
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quote: We have a drug market here.

One of the big reasons that this can be supported and y'all can get new drugs is by the largesse of the market in the US. I don't know if we will be successful in feathering our own bed in the end through such a market, but it's a rational bet that we will.

	22-03-2005 20:35									#65
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So Dan...exactly how much is a human life worth? You know, dollars-and-cents wise?

	22-03-2005 20:37									#66
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I just asked KH that the other day. He quoted me a hundred thousand or two.

	22-03-2005 20:41									#67
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

I'm hoping two...

	22-03-2005 20:52									#68
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

But souls may fetch a higher price. There's still hope for you.

	22-03-2005 20:57									#69
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by DanS It's a matter of mathematics. The big drug companies spend about 20% of revenues on R&D -- higher even than most software companies. If you reduce the revenues, then the R&D will be reduced in likewise fashion. Fewer drugs will be discovered and brought to market. Regarding Lipitor R&D costs, the company has several failures to every success. Lipitor profits must be considered in this context.

Hmm, 20% into R&D..how much goes into profit?

And also, a lot of these companies get free research from the public sector..maybe it would be more fair to have the drug companies pay royalties to the government for the profitable use of government paid research? Maybe put those royalties in a account then used to subsidize drug costs for the poor?

	22-03-2005 21:18									#70
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quote: Hmm, 20% into R&D..how much goes into profit?

A good portion. Consider three R&D-driven companies: Microsoft, Intel, and Pfizer. Each spends about 20% of revenues on R&D. Over the last four fiscal years, their average after-tax profit as a percentage of revenue is 23.25% for Microsoft, 14.5% for Intel, and 23.25% for Pfizer.

However, Pfizer's profits are a lot more variable than Microsoft's profits. So Pfizer's 23.25% is worth less than Microsoft's 23.25%. Also, Intel's profits should be higher. They aren't because the last four fiscal years include a deep recession in the semiconductor industry.

	22-03-2005 21:20									#71
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quote: Originally posted by DanS I just asked KH that the other day. He quoted me a hundred thousand or two.

More to other governments. The American one is simply notoriously stingy. I'd also like to note that it cost ~100k dollars in Viet Nam to kill each VC/NVA.

So by this arithmetic the US government considers killing a communist a decent exchange for losing an American.

	22-03-2005 21:29									#72
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The gallows math for Vietnam was well and truly screwed up. But the death benefit for soldiers in Iraq is being upped from $250,000 to $500,000 and so it would make sense to spend at least that much money to buy these soldiers' lives. And then you have all of the expensive wounds that are paid for that all told cost the government millions of dollars apiece for some injuries.

	22-03-2005 21:33									#73
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Soldiers' lives are worth more than average citizens' lives to the US government and media. I never said they weren't. Though the fact that a large proportion of soldiers in Viet Nam were poor uneducated urban minorities made those soldiers particularly expendable.

	22-03-2005 21:42									#74
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The 9/11 victims got an average $1.8 million. Also consider that there has been a big switch into basic life sciences research at the federal level -- about $30 billion or $40 billion per annum. In short, the US Gov't is becoming a big, big spender when lives are on the line.

	22-03-2005 22:37									#75
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quote: Originally posted by KrazyHorse Soldiers' lives are worth more than average citizens' lives to the US government and media. I never said they weren't. Though the fact that a large proportion of soldiers in Viet Nam were poor uneducated urban minorities made those soldiers particularly expendable.

http://www.vvof.org/factsvnv.htm

quote: Originally posted by The Emperor Fabulous So Dan...exactly how much is a human life worth? You know, dollars-and-cents wise?

How much should we spend to torture someone who is going to outgrow their own lungs?

	23-03-2005 02:26									#76
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Can everyone just back off? Dan works for drug companies. He needs to feel good about his work.

	23-03-2005 02:32									#77
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The Pharmaceutical industry in America is comprised of the most corrupt, devious, and greedy individuals known to man. They just might be worse than the insurance industry.

	23-03-2005 02:35									#78
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The scary part is people who work for big Phrma really do believe they are the good guys.

	23-03-2005 05:14									#79
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quote: Dan works for drug companies. He needs to feel good about his work.

I have never worked for the pharma side of the business and nowadays most pharma companies have long since spun off their agchem divisions.

Most agchem companies -- including my clients -- don't make much money compared to the drug companies. They might have profit of 5-10% of revenues and put 5-10% of revenues in R&D.

	23-03-2005 05:20									#80
	Suffering from ads?

I know - I never let the facts get in the way of a good post Dan

	23-03-2005 05:25									#81
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.

	23-03-2005 05:26									#82
	Inflate your Upload Space

The info wasn't for you, since you would cling to your idiocy in any event. It was more for the Apolytoners who are interested in the interplay of profit and industry spending on R&D.

	23-03-2005 05:29									#83
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idiocy? (tee hee)