27-03-2005 16:53									#31
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He's right, for once...

	27-03-2005 17:11									#32
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I'm sure we'll all be real proud of Taiwan when those idiots start WWIII.

Its like Poland all over again, who gave us WWII by being morons over their independence.

These little countries are dangerous critters. They should all be banned.

	27-03-2005 17:20									#33
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quote: These little countries are dangerous critters. They should all be banned.

I agree with you, Horse.

quote: Population of Australia - 19,913,144 (July 2004 est.) Population of Taiwan - 22,749,838 (July 2004 est.)

http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/

	27-03-2005 18:12									#34
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we're different - we take sides - we provide good mercenaries

	27-03-2005 19:50									#35
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quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten He's right, for once...

I've seen reports saying around 500,000.

	27-03-2005 19:54									#36
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All of Australia has less then 20 million people? LA metro area has 15-16 million and it's not even the largest city in America.

	27-03-2005 19:56									#37
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We should ban Australia.

	27-03-2005 20:05									#38
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@ Drake

	27-03-2005 20:37									#39
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quote: Originally posted by Spiffor @ Drake

	28-03-2005 03:32									#40
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quote: Originally posted by Oerdin All of Australia has less then 20 million people? LA metro area has 15-16 million and it's not even the largest city in America.

Which goes a long way to explaining why Australia is a better place to live than LA.

	28-03-2005 05:22									#41
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quote: I've seen reports saying around 500,000.

He's right that the police estimate was 240,000. The organizers said a million and other reports are somewhere in between.

Anyway, can we drop this? I've only said UR is right twice now and I already feel dirty...

	28-03-2005 05:33									#42
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quote: Originally posted by Alexander's Horse Which goes a long way to explaining why Australia is a better place to live than LA.

And if that isn't crazy enough, Mexico City has 30 million people in it.

	28-03-2005 05:35									#43
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quote: Originally posted by Ted Striker Most of the containers that come off the LA docks are all from China and Japan.

I can not contest this.

	28-03-2005 06:00									#44
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to Taiwan

	28-03-2005 06:56									#45
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The local newspapers here in California are quoting the Taiwanese police as saying 500K+ people attended the rally.

	28-03-2005 07:13									#46
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quote: In its editorial, the China Times said Taiwanese people had displayed their anger at the law by taking to the streets of Taipei Saturday for the rally, which police estimated at a revised 275,000. They had previously estimated at 240,000.

http://www.manilatimes.net/national...050328opi7.html

	29-03-2005 22:23									#47
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The demonstration as an event itself dramatically highlights the difference between the two forms of gov't.

quote: Originally posted by Dr Strangelove What would happen if the people of Taiwan simply renounced Chinese culture? Suppose they all agreed to speak English, French, German, Japanese or whatever and changed all the names in the country to corresponding ones in that language? Suppose they then waited a generation or two?

Coincidentally just tonight the Taiwanese guy I'm seeing was pointing out to me the people around us (in the restaurant and on the subway here in Shanghai) who were speaking Taiwanese. He says it's his primary language when he's back home.

When Taiwanese speak Mandarin, they are easily recognizable by their accent and vocabulary differences, so this is already happening.

	30-03-2005 00:54									#48
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quote: Originally posted by Sava if China is so bad, shouldn't we boycott American businesses that do business with China?

yes, we should. Unfortunately, when it comes to US foreign policy, capitalism is more important than morality. It's all about making $$$$$$$$$$$.

	30-03-2005 01:30									#49
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Diplomat, you dirty communist.

	30-03-2005 01:53									#50
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quote: Originally posted by Azazel Diplomat, you dirty communist.

I feel insulted.

Just because I think that profit can get in the way of morality does not make me a commie.

	30-03-2005 01:56									#51
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Of course it does.

	30-03-2005 02:02									#52
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quote: Originally posted by The diplomat Just because I think that profit can get in the way of morality does not make me a commie.

Yes it does.


Initiating the Diplomat project!

	30-03-2005 02:36									#53
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara Yes it does.

How does it make me a communist?

I don't believe profit is evil. I said profit is sometimes wrong if it leads to immoral actions. There's a big difference!

Furthermore, I am firm believer in private property and capitalism. I believe in supply and demand. I work to produce a good or a service which others need, and which I can sell my good or service at a price that represents the value of my work. That's capitalism in a nutshell, and I think it is the best economic system in the world. Communism, on the other hand, is based on state ownwership where goods and services are produced and distributed according to the needs of the community not the individual. I reject that model!

Again, just because I believe that capitalism can sometimes lead to evil if it is abused does not make me a communist. It just makes me a capitalist with a sense of morality.

	30-03-2005 02:41									#54
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Are you convincing me, or yourself, diplo?

I don't believe that profit is necessarily evil, too.

Capitalism is first and foremost the belief that the market will take care of anything.

You seem to object to having a market trade with China, because they're evil. ergo, you don't think that the market will take care of everything. Now, it's already a question of degrees.

quote: Again, just because I believe that capitalism can sometimes lead to evil if it is abused does not make me a communist. It just makes me a capitalist with a sense of morality.

Are you listening to yourself?

What will happen next? You'll start convincing yourselfus that Staling is evil?

	30-03-2005 03:11									#55
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Az, please be gentle

	30-03-2005 03:28									#56
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quote: Originally posted by Azazel Capitalism is first and foremost the belief that the market will take care of anything.

First, capitalism, as used since at least the time of Marx, is NOT an ideology, its a form of social organization. Neo-liberalism, classical economics, libertarianism, etc are beliefs - capitalism is not.

But lets assume an ideology of "pro-capitalism" - are you saying that Adam Smith (the 18thc figure, not the poly poster) was not pro-capitalist? he didnt think the market could take care of EVERYTHING.


Now can we get back to Taiwan?

	30-03-2005 03:34									#57
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Tawain is a de facto independant country. They have geographic seperation, continuity, even a sea coast. They have their own army. Chinese law, police etc. have no power in Taiwan. They are not a part of China. (Nor is China a part of them. Sorry Chaing Kai Shek.) The whole "not announcing independance" is a fig leaf.

Nor should we push them become part of China. If they want to be free, let them. Why go backwards?

We should continue to trade with China. Not doing so, serves little purpose. The Euros will just trade with them in any case. Trade sanctions are an abysmal method of influencing policy. China will not invade Taiwan so long as they realize that militarily they would get their asses kicked. That's a much scarier stick than some trade sanctions.

	30-03-2005 03:58									#58
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quote: Originally posted by The diplomat yes, we should. Unfortunately, when it comes to US foreign policy, capitalism is more important than morality. It's all about making $$$$$$$$$$$.

Diplo and I AGREE on something!?!

	30-03-2005 06:22									#59
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quote: Organizers said they had met their goal of attracting 1 million protesters, although the police estimated the crowd at more than 500,000.

http://www.signonsandiego.com/union...1n27taiwan.html

	30-03-2005 06:32									#60
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quote: Organizers said 1 million people joined the show of people power against Beijing's military threat, but Taipei police estimated the crowd at just over 240,000.

http://www.boston.com/news/world/as...inst_china_law/

quote: The agency does not mention the number of demonstrators at the Taipei rally, which Taiwan police estimated at 240,000.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitem...03/s1332167.htm