Apolyton Archive  |  Preserved copy of the Apolyton Civilization Site and its forums as they stood in September 2005. Read-only; nothing here can be posted to or replied to.  |  Forum index |  About this archive |  The 1998–2001 UBB forums
Today on Apolyton WARDELL INTERVIEW PROMO A.C.S. HISTORY CHAPTER 4 GET CIV4 /w FREE PLUS! A.C.S. PHOTO GALLERY GET A.O.M. V1.1
Apolyton Civilization Forums
main| civ2| civ3| civ4| smac| ctp2| ron| moo3| galciv| galciv2| alt| about|
ApolytonPLUS | register | search | faq | new posts | pm (-/-) | upload | members
hall of fame new! | civgroups | civgroups news | interviews | the column | radio | chat | directory | news | store | PLUS
Apolyton Civilization Forums : Powered by vBulletin version 2.0.3 Apolyton Civilization Forums > Miscellaneous > Off-Topic > Fake memos and the MSM - Round 2
Show a Printable Version | Email This Page to Someone! | Receive updates to this thread | Report this to Apolyton news!
20.Sep: FOURTH CHAPTER IN `HISTORY OF...` PUBLISHED
13.Sep: NEWS ON THE FLY
06.Sep: APOLYTON DONATES TO HURRICANE RELIEF

bottom of page
   - CIVILIZATION 3 $9.99 - CIVILIZATION 2 from $6.95 - CIVILIZATION 2 from $4.25 - ALPHA CENTAURI + ALIEN CROSSFIRE (laptop collection) from $19.99 - ALPHA CENTAURI PC $9.99 -->
Author
Thread   
Pages (3): [ 1   2   3   ]
< Last Thread     Next Thread > Post New Thread     Post A Reply
Boris Godunov is offline Boris Godunov
King
Portland, OR
Aug 2001
time: 00:17
  Old Post 29-03-2005 10:05
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#61 Report this post to a moderator
Increase the size of your Attachments

The fact that the TPs were copied from conservative sites only shows that they were copied from conservative sites, not that the memo isn't authentic. It could just mean that a lazy staffer found a premade litany of things to include that fit the bill and stuck it in the memo. Happens all the time, and saves a lot of trouble. That would be consistent with there being typos and such, as it would indicate the memo was dashed off in a hurry with typos and the like. It's certainly possible.

I don't see why ABC should be criticized in this manner, however. They got the memo, said where they got it from, and then asked the people who were supposedly behind it where it came from. They all said they hadn't seen it before. At no point did ABC say, "hey, we KNOW this came from you...admit it!"

Drake Tungsten is offline Drake Tungsten
Prince
Knee deep in alien womyn...
Oct 2001
time: 14:17
  Old Post 29-03-2005 10:22
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#62 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

ABC should never have called it a GOP memo if they couldn't prove it came from the GOP. It's dishonest, sloppy journalism...

Admiral is offline Admiral
Warlord
of the peace and coexistance movement
Feb 2001
time: 00:17
  Old Post 07-04-2005 08:05
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#63 Report this post to a moderator
Tired of ads?

So, I hate to revive dead threads, but upon reading the article below, my thoughts turned inexorably to this thead.

quote:


Schiavo Memo Is Attributed to Senate Aide
By DAVID D. KIRKPATRICK

Published: April 7, 2005

WASHINGTON, April 6 - Senator Mel Martinez, Republican of Florida, said Wednesday that a senior member of his staff had written an unsigned memorandum about the partisan political advantages of intervening in the case of Terri Schiavo that became a controversial footnote to the debate over the wisdom and motives of Congress's actions.

In a statement on Wednesday night, Mr. Martinez said that he had just learned that the memorandum originated in his office and that its author had resigned. He did not name the author, but aides said it was Brian Darling, his counsel.

Mr. Darling could not be reached for comment.

"It is with profound disappointment and regret that I learned today that a senior member of my staff was unilaterally responsible for this document," Mr. Martinez said. "It was not approved by me or any other member of my staff, nor were we aware of its existence until very recently."

Mr. Martinez added: "This type of behavior and sentiment will not be tolerated in my office. As the senator, I am ultimately responsible for the work of my staff and the product that comes out of this office. I take full responsibility for this situation."

The anonymous memorandum, which was distributed to news organizations by Democratic aides and first reported by ABC News, became widely cited in news reports as evidence that at least some Republicans were applying a political calculus to the case of Ms. Schiavo, the brain-damaged Florida woman. Senator Bill Frist of Tennessee, the majority leader, and many other Republican Senators quickly disavowed the document, saying they had never seen it and that they condemned it.

In his statement, Mr. Martinez said that on March 9 he had mistakenly and unknowingly handed the document to Senator Tom Harkin, Democrat of Iowa, on the floor of the Senate. Mr. Martinez said that he had meant to reach for a different document and that he did not know how it had entered his possession.

"Senator Harkin was kind enough today to call me and tell me this afternoon that he believes the memo he received was given to him by me," Mr. Martinez said. "Until this afternoon, I had never seen it and had no idea a copy of it had ever been in my possession."

Boris Godunov is offline Boris Godunov
King
Portland, OR
Aug 2001
time: 00:17
  Old Post 07-04-2005 08:07
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#64 Report this post to a moderator
Tired of ads?

Haha, I was right. It was a lazy staffer.

ixnay is offline ixnay
ACS Staff: 'RoN' Content Editor
I <3 etna, omg disgaea fag
Jan 1970
time: 22:17
  Old Post 07-04-2005 08:22 Visit ixnay<br><img src=/forums/images/staff-icon.gif>'s homepage!
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#65 Report this post to a moderator
Enter the AD-FREE zone

Ramo is offline Ramo
King
Austin, Texas, USA
Oct 1999
time: 23:17
  Old Post 07-04-2005 08:36 Visit Ramo's homepage!
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#66 Report this post to a moderator
Got spare money?


Evil pinko liburl MSM pwned Drake and the Weekly Standard.

Drake Tungsten is offline Drake Tungsten
Prince
Knee deep in alien womyn...
Oct 2001
time: 14:17
  Old Post 07-04-2005 11:01
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#67 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

How am I pwned? ABC was still wrong to run their original story attributing the memo to the "GOP" and Republican "party leaders"; this news, if accurate, reinforces that.

Oerdin is offline Oerdin
King
of Internet Music.
Sep 2001
time: 21:17
  Old Post 07-04-2005 11:15
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#68 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Your pwned because you keep repeating these baseless Rush Limbaugh like claims that the memo was fake. Republicans got caught red handed; that isn't a new thing and it won't be the last time. Just accept it and move on.

Drake Tungsten is offline Drake Tungsten
Prince
Knee deep in alien womyn...
Oct 2001
time: 14:17
  Old Post 07-04-2005 11:47
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#69 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Leave the hackery to the veterans, Oerdin...

VJ is offline VJ
Prince
Helsinki
Dec 2001
time: 07:17
  Old Post 07-04-2005 13:06
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#70 Report this post to a moderator
Get a bigger avatar today!

Can't we just ban people like Drake? I'm getting tired of this crap: these trolls and these lies are wasting my time since I accidentally click them when they're on the first page of OT, thinking that there might be something useful in a thread title I don't understand... what I get is more irrelevant garbage which Drake has taken from his ass... It's so obvious that he knows even himself he's bullshitting us that it isn't even funny anymore.

Wasting my time with this crap

Drake Tungsten is offline Drake Tungsten
Prince
Knee deep in alien womyn...
Oct 2001
time: 14:17
  Old Post 07-04-2005 13:17
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#71 Report this post to a moderator
Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote:
Wasting my time with this crap


Likewise. If you can't follow a thread well enough to realize I'm neither lying nor bullshitting, then don't waste my time by pointlessly *****ing in my thread.

Ramo is offline Ramo
King
Austin, Texas, USA
Oct 1999
time: 23:17
  Old Post 07-04-2005 18:59 Visit Ramo's homepage!
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#72 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

quote:
How am I pwned?


On ABC was still wrong to run their original story attributing the memo to the "GOP" and Republican "party leaders"; this news, if accurate, reinforces that.[/q]

So the legal counsel to Martinez (with connections to DeLay, oddly enough) is a Democrat?
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/7411079/

The only thing that you might be able to call ABC on is the "party leader," thing, and one could easily argue that the Republican Senator from Florida is a party leader on Schiavo-related matters. Evidently, his talking points have spread far and wide.

But the idea that this was a "political dirty trick" has shown itself to be horseshit.

molly bloom is offline molly bloom
Prince
Lundenwic
Oct 2001
time: 15:17
  Old Post 07-04-2005 19:07
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#73 Report this post to a moderator
Remove this text

quote:
Originally posted by Ramo


horseshit.



Aaahhh, the wonder Republican bulk diet item.

Unfortunately it appears to cause projectile regurgitation in some ingesters...

Drake Tungsten is offline Drake Tungsten
Prince
Knee deep in alien womyn...
Oct 2001
time: 14:17
  Old Post 07-04-2005 19:10
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#74 Report this post to a moderator
Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote:
But the idea that this was a "political dirty trick" has shown itself to be horseshit.


Well, the idea that the memo was a dirty trick was always put forward as a mere possibility. ABC and the WaPo are lucky that has not turned out to be the case, but there are still plenty of problems with their coverage of this story. I think Mickey Kaus sums it up pretty well...

quote:
Non-fake but inaccurate! WaPo's Mike Allen reports that the now-famous Schiavo "talking points" memo came from freshman GOP senator Mel Martinez's office. So that mystery is cleared up. The memo wasn't a fake. But Allen doesn't come off looking too good in this latest account. a) The memo was apparently not "distributed to Republican Senators by party leaders," as Allen's initial story, sent out through the Post news service to other papers, reported. It was--at least judging from today's account--handed to one Democratic senator, Tom Harkin, by one freshman Republican senator (who isn't in the party leadership); b) Allen doesn't explain why he told Howie Kurtz he "did not call them talking points or a Republican memo" when he had in fact done just that in the news service draft; c) Even the later, more "carefully worded" account Allen published in the Post itself was apparently wrong. Allen wrote

In a memo distributed only to Republican senators, the Schiavo case was characterized as "a great political issue" ...

This is almost the reverse of what Allen now reports. We know the memo was distributed to at least one Democratic senator. We don't know whether it was distributed to any Republican senator other then the senator whose staffer wrote it (although it's hard to believe it wasn't given to at least some other GOP lawmakers). Allen's story left the now-unsupported impression that Republican senators were conspiratorially reading the memo amongst themselves; d) The whole "memo" fuss, as played up by WaPo and ABC's Linda Douglass, was wildly overdone even if the memo was a GOP leadership document--as if senators never consider what is a good political issue, as if that's a no-no in a democracy. (Phoning Martin Luther King Jr. in jail was a "good political issue" for Sen. John Kennedy--and if you were trying to convince him to make the call that's something you'd have pointed out!) But certainly whatever legitimate valence Allen's 'memo' story had depended almost entirely on the impression that the memo revealed and represented the strategy of the GOP leaders who pushed the Schiavo bill. If all that was involved was a staff memo Martinez gave to Harkin, Allen's story was way out of whack. The memo wasn't close to being worth the play it got in WaPo or in Douglass' report. (It's not worth the current Senate investigation either. What's the crime--politicians considering politics?


http://slate.msn.com/id/2116317/

Ramo is offline Ramo
King
Austin, Texas, USA
Oct 1999
time: 23:17
  Old Post 07-04-2005 19:49 Visit Ramo's homepage!
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#75 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton buy from Amazon


Oh man. Did Kaus just compare the Schiavo matter with Georgia tossing MLK into jail for a minor traffic violation after all-white juries failed to convict on two other charges? That's just surreal.

molly bloom is offline molly bloom
Prince
Lundenwic
Oct 2001
time: 15:17
  Old Post 07-04-2005 19:53
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#76 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote:
Originally posted by Ramo

Oh man. Did Kaus just compare the Schiavo matter with Georgia tossing MLK into jail for a minor traffic violation after all-white juries failed to convict on two other charges? That's just surreal.



I love the smell of desperation in the morning.

Boris Godunov is offline Boris Godunov
King
Portland, OR
Aug 2001
time: 00:17
  Old Post 07-04-2005 20:33
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#77 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Anyone else find Martinez's explanation of the memo fishy? Given his despicable lying in the election, I wouldn't be surprised if this was a buck-passing attempt. I am curious to hear what Harkin says.

Ramo is offline Ramo
King
Austin, Texas, USA
Oct 1999
time: 23:17
  Old Post 07-04-2005 20:43 Visit Ramo's homepage!
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#78 Report this post to a moderator
Suffering from ads?

Yep. His office clearly has lied about the memo. I find it very unlikely that Martinez was innocent of the matter, or that Harkin was the only Senator who he gave the memo to.

Boris Godunov is offline Boris Godunov
King
Portland, OR
Aug 2001
time: 00:17
  Old Post 08-04-2005 01:28
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#79 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote:
Originally posted by Ramo
Yep. His office clearly has lied about the memo. I find it very unlikely that Martinez was innocent of the matter, or that Harkin was the only Senator who he gave the memo to.


Martinez has a history of passing the buck, it seems. Remember during the election his campaign got busted on pulling some really sleazy tactics. Martinez blamed everything on "staffers" and said it wasn't a reflection on his views. Well, gee, if you surround yourself with people who do such things, don't be too surprised if people question your integrity when **** like this happens.

DRoseDARs is offline DRoseDARs

Prince
"My god, it's full of peas..."
Jul 2002
time: 21:17
  Old Post 08-04-2005 02:27
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#80 Report this post to a moderator
Increase the size of your Attachments

[NEOCON LOGIC]
It's my understanding that Sen. Martinez was handing copies out to others in the Senate. Unless he was sleepwalking, I doubt very much he had any complicity in the matter. He is an innocent man.
[/NEOCON LOGIC]

Tingkai is offline Tingkai
Warlord
To find the Northwest Passage
Aug 2001
time: 13:17
  Old Post 08-04-2005 09:21
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#81 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote:
Originally posted by Admiral
So, I hate to revive dead threads, but upon reading the article below, my thoughts turned inexorably to this thead.

...
In his statement, Mr. Martinez said that on March 9 he had mistakenly and unknowingly handed the document to Senator Tom Harkin, Democrat of Iowa, on the floor of the Senate. Mr. Martinez said that he had meant to reach for a different document and that he did not know how it had entered his possession.


 
Pages (3): [ 1   2   3   ]
< Last Thread     Next Thread > Post New Thread     Post A Reply
All times are GMT. The time now is 05:17.
Apolyton Time is 00:17.
    top of page
Rate This Thread:
Forum Jump:
Forum Rules:
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is ON
vB code is ON
Smilies are ON
[IMG] code is ON
 




Contact Us - Apolyton Civilization Site - Support Us!

Building a better Apolyton through better information. Click here and take our poll!
Non-US visitors, click here!

Powered by: vBulletin Version 2.0.3
Copyright ©2000, 2001, Jelsoft Enterprises Limited.

Page generated in 0.0473 seconds (91.89% PHP - 8.11% MySQL) with 30 queries
Page Loading Time:

Support Apolyton: Amazon USA | Amazon UK | Amazon DE | Amazon FR |
Support Apolyton and get FREE PLUS, Buy from Chips&Bits: Galactic Civilizations | Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition | Call to Power 2 | Civilization: The Boardgame | GURPS/ Alpha Centauri | Alpha Centauri | Civilization IV | Civilization III: Complete |


Front Page | Civilization IV | Civilization III | Civilization II | Call to Power II | Alpha Centauri | Master of Orion III
Rise of Nations | Galactic Civilizations | Galactic Civilizations II | Misc
Alt.Civs | Civ I | C:CtP I | About | News | Directory | Apolyton Store | Forums | Chat | Columns | Interviews | Newsletter
Scenario League | CSC | Clash of Civs | Spanish Site | CtP Maps | Cradle of Civ | WesW's Ctp1/2 Site | Civ3 Haven

apolyton.net | apolyton.com | civilization2.net | civilization3.net | civilization4.net | civilizationiv.info | calltopower.net | galciv.net | galciv2.net | moo3.net