31-03-2005 01:41									#31
	Re: Instant Polyjury -- was it honorable "to put him out of his misery" Support Apolyton

quote: Originally posted by DanS The long story short is that there was a wounded Sadr militant on the side of the road after being shot by a US tank company. The company commander, after being told by his medic that the militant wasn't going to make it, "put him out of his misery." The company commander insists that it was an honorable killing -- the most merciful action, given the circumstances. Do you agree with him?

If it was certain that he was going to die and he was in enormous pain then yes.

	31-03-2005 01:45									#32
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If the man was conscious and requested to be killed then this is a no-brainer.

If he was conscious and wanted to continue recieving medical care then he should have.

If he was only semiconscious and unable to make a decision and the extent of his injuries was so great that it was only a matter of waiting for him to die then I approve.

I would hope that the same decision would be made independent of whether he was an enemy or ally. In other words, if this guy is found not guilty in the inevitable inquiry it better happen to anybody who mercy-kills an American soldier.

	31-03-2005 01:49									#33
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The coup de grāce has been around forever in warfare.

	31-03-2005 03:44									#34
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This is unsat and should not be done whether the guy asks for it or not and regardless of his status (civilian, enemy, US, ally).

That said, insert "feeding tube" troll.

	31-03-2005 03:46									#35
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"unsat"?

I'm pretty surprised at the number of people who think this is honorable or could be honorable under some circumstances.

	31-03-2005 03:48									#36
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It's worse than unsat. It is criminal. It is murder. This guy is going to stand at the green table and (possibly) swing.

	31-03-2005 03:50									#37
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I am not sure whether this thing is right.

I need some time to think about this.

	31-03-2005 04:09									#38
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The report doesn't describe the wounds, how can you say?

	31-03-2005 05:18									#39
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quote: Originally posted by DanS I'm pretty surprised at the number of people who think this is honorable or could be honorable under some circumstances.

Well, I'm not sure "honourable" is the right word, but "merciful" definitely is (provided it is true the guy couldn't survive his wounds).

I think most people who think like that emphasize on human suffering over human life. Basically, a life of agony isn't worth living. I can't vouch for that, but I think it's the main reason of support for the soldier.

	31-03-2005 05:21									#40
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quote: Originally posted by Q Cubed honorable? i dunno. i don't give a ****. killing people, especially non-white non-americans.

ill find someway in which you arent american.

	31-03-2005 05:22									#41
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Old news.

Sailors used to put a bullet in those they couldn't rescue.

	31-03-2005 06:01									#42
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quote: Originally posted by DanS "unsat"? I'm pretty surprised at the number of people who think this is honorable or could be honorable under some circumstances.

I would want it done for me.

	31-03-2005 06:03									#43
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well i guess theres a bullet coming for you

	31-03-2005 06:06									#44
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Repremand him with understanding, and let it be done.

Every situation is different, and it sounded like this one called for such an action. I don't agree with the action, but I can't say that I wouldn't do it myself... especially if they guy was KH

	31-03-2005 06:08									#45
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how did I know it was coming?

	31-03-2005 06:17									#46
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mrt144, i don't look american.

asians aren't considered "american" by most people. we're considered "foreigners".

besides, there's what, about 2 billion more of me anyway?

	31-03-2005 06:32									#47
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IMHO even the medic was not qualified to make such a decision. The only times that paramedical personnel are permitted to make a life or death decision is when the situation threatens the life of the paramedic, or when giving aide to a "hopeless" case would hamper efforts to give aide to a more viable patient or when adequate resuscitative efforts have proven futile. In this case it would appear that the wounded man was even concious. Of course, I don't know how extensive his wounds were.

	31-03-2005 06:33									#48
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i dont know, ive know quite a few asians who lived in america longer than my family. I think asians are as american as baseball and autos

	31-03-2005 06:40									#49
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I agree with the doc - and even what looks like catastrophic injuries can be dealt with these days.

That's one reason why the US only have 1500 dead but 11,000 wounded. That's an incredibly low death to casualty ratio.

	31-03-2005 06:41									#50
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quote: I would want it done for me.

In the extreme, with your position, you would have to admit to a potential teenage suicider that suicide may be a good path, depending on how much mental pain the kid is under.

	31-03-2005 06:45									#51
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They could have left the casualty for the local pop to assist.

If it took 2 shots to kill then the patient hardly sounds like he was at death's door.

These soldiers have been watching too many Westerns.

	31-03-2005 06:45									#52
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Suicide is a permenet answer to temporay problems. This is an entirerly different situation.

	31-03-2005 06:47									#53
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How do you know that the problems are temporary? I can easily imagine a broad range of permanent problems.

	31-03-2005 06:55									#54
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quote: Originally posted by DanS In the extreme, with your position, you would have to admit to a potential teenage suicider that suicide may be a good path, depending on how much mental pain the kid is under.

Based on this quote, the problems you are implying are most likely dealing with a bad homelife, teen angst about something, infatuations with another person or some other such temperary thing.

Now yes, there are some medical reason why suicide might look like a good path, but they are not limited exclusively to teenagers.

	31-03-2005 07:04									#55
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quote: Originally posted by DanS In the extreme, with your position, you would have to admit to a potential teenage suicider that suicide may be a good path, depending on how much mental pain the kid is under.

Mental pain can be cured. In fact, going to sleep tends to dispell it. Not so with physical pain like losing half of your head...

	31-03-2005 08:35									#56
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quote: Originally posted by Winston The only circumstance that could possibly sway my opinion on this, is if the wounded man himself explicitly requested to be killed.

Normally, yes. Though they could have a problem communicating, and the Iraqi might not be strong enough to talk or make gestures.

Details, details...

Edit: KH beat me to it

	31-03-2005 23:03									#57
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Interesting that the military folks here seem to be the most gung-ho for conviction...

...And he was convicted for a slightly lesser charge.

quote: Mar 31, 7:08 AM (ET) (AP) US Army Capt. Rogelio M. Maynulet leaves the courthouse at the Army Airfield in Wiesbaden near... Full Image WIESBADEN, Germany (AP) - A military court on Thursday found a U.S. Army tank company commander guilty of charges related to the shooting death of a wounded Iraqi last year. Capt. Rogelio "Roger" Maynulet, a 30-year-old from Chicago, stood at attention as the verdict was read. The charge - assault with intent to commit voluntary manslaughter - carries a maximum sentence of 10 years in prison. The court was to reconvene later Thursday to consider Maynulet's sentence. Prosecutors had sought a conviction on a more serious charge of assault with intent to commit murder, which carries a 20-year maximum. Prosecutors said Maynulet violated military rules of engagement by shooting a man who was wounded and unarmed. Maynulet, 30, maintained that the man was gravely wounded and that he shot him to end his suffering. Maynulet's 1st Armored Division tank company had been on patrol near Kufa on May 21, 2004, when it was alerted to a car thought to be carrying a driver for radical cleric Muqtada al-Sadr and another militiaman loyal to the Shiite cleric. The U.S. troops chased the vehicle and fired at it, wounding both the passenger, who fled and was later apprehended, and the driver. The killing was filmed by a U.S. drone surveillance aircraft.

	01-04-2005 00:09									#58
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Assuming he was as gravely wounded as claimed:

	01-04-2005 01:22									#59
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How can you committ voluntary manslaughter? Isn't manslaughter the unintentional killing of a human being?

	01-04-2005 01:37									#60
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It requires heat of the moment provocation, or sufficient cause, to make the distinction.