19-04-2005 23:10									#91
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Ahhh. We don't have aid, we have government loans (£3000pa basic, extra £1000pa means tested), and means tested fees (£0-1150pa). The theory is you can live on £4000pa, without paying fees, and without parental support. It's pretty hard though. It goes that every £9 your parents earn, you pay £1 extra in fees, and that this amount should come from parental support.

Obviously some don't get that, I have friends who's parents don't provide anything but earn enough so they get the basic £3000 loan and pay £1150 fees, and have to work to make up the shortfall. Then there are lucky people like me, who have some extra support for having poor parents, but whose parents still give them money.

Most universities reckon you need ~£4500-5000 after fees to live, so if you have poor parents, the government loans come pretty close.

	20-04-2005 00:10									#92
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Spec I added up everything, except for the 1 million + per year (cuz frankly, I dont buy it) and got an average annual income of 54 151$ USD, which is not so bad considering all the students that hang-out here. Spec.

thanks, I was too lazy to do that

	20-04-2005 00:27									#93
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Drogue Most universities reckon you need ~£4500-5000 after fees to live, so if you have poor parents, the government loans come pretty close.

Sadly, the government here seems to think people in their 20's are 'kept' by their parents. Not true in a lot of cases which....well, it's not good.

My student loan gives me c.£100 spare pa after paying my rent. That means an overdraft is essential in order to pay my fees....which gives me a grand total of £100 in my overdraft after all that.

So...£200 to live on for a year. Somehow I have spent more than that somewhere along the line. Wish the government gave out loans according to *my* income rather than that of two people I hardly see who dont see me as financially dependant on them in any way.

Thinking outloud there, sorry. But this thread has reminded me how grossly unfair the student loans system is.

	20-04-2005 00:42									#94
	Full PM-box? Change here!

in the US at least, I think there is a way to say that yuo aren't dependent on your parents financially...

I know oyu can do this buy getting married..

JM

	20-04-2005 00:48									#95
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

bit drastic imho

	20-04-2005 00:50									#96
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: Originally posted by Verres Thinking outloud there, sorry. But this thread has reminded me how grossly unfair the student loans system is.

I know Pragmatically, the system works for most students as most students whose parents aren't poor contribute. But as you say, it's still based on the flawed idea of parental income, and so creates major problems for people who don't qualify and who's parents don't contribute.

The idea of parental contribution is great if parents are prepared to pay. But that's not the case often. With the new graduate payment system, I'd love to see them abolish means testing based on parental income.

Aside from giving everyone enough money in loans to pay for their living costs, is there a fair way of doing it? And is that result too costly?

	20-04-2005 00:51									#97
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: Originally posted by Jon Miller in the US at least, I think there is a way to say that yuo aren't dependent on your parents financially... I know oyu can do this buy getting married..

There is here to, however it usually involves proving you have no contact with them, or have lived apart from them for 3 years.

	20-04-2005 01:14									#98
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: Originally posted by Drogue Aside from giving everyone enough money in loans to pay for their living costs, is there a fair way of doing it? And is that result too costly?

Yes, its called scraping tuition fees. As for whether thats economically viable...you're the economist, I can't answer that one

	20-04-2005 02:21									#99
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Oh, I was presuming that. Even if tuition fees are scrapped though, there's still the larger problem of living costs. £3000 isn't enough to live on. Loans could be put up for everyone I suppose, to £4k, and remove the means testing by parental income.

It's all easily affordable, the big problem for finances is how to stop the university fund gap.

	20-04-2005 02:42									#100
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

in the US you can take out extra (slightly higher rated) loans..

I did that one year..

Jon Miller

	20-04-2005 06:43									#101
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by BlackCat Nope. If I'm not wrong, then most of us ended in this piece of heaven/hellhole because we plays SMAC/X. Smart people usually get paid well.

You may be on to something there.....


D

	20-04-2005 06:56									#102
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

I make about 120 to 170 people / week live longer, healthier, and/or less painful lives. That translates into 6000 to 8500 people / year......................but I'm not even in the top 15% of the poll.

	20-04-2005 07:13									#103
	Tired of ads?

:d Dr Strangelove!

JM

	21-04-2005 19:47									#104
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote: Originally posted by Dr Strangelove I make about 120 to 170 people / week live longer, healthier, and/or less painful lives. That translates into 6000 to 8500 people / year......................but I'm not even in the top 15% of the poll.

How do you treat 30 people a day? That would imply you only spend about 15 minutes per patient. In many cases, I would think that would be insufficient.

	21-04-2005 19:51									#105
	Increase the size of your Attachments

pchang, get a clue... what is the profession, where you have a customer for appx 15 minutes, make them feel good about themselves etc. What is the oldest profession?