20-04-2005 14:57									#31
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quote: Originally posted by Provost Harrison What a load of pretentious bollocks! Do people honestly eat that sh*t or put it on display in their homes? I want food dammit, not that overpriced muck! Another sign of their sheer pretention is that they describe everything in French. No disrespect to the French, but this is the ultimate sign of snootiness in our dining establishments...

Have you eaten there ?

Thought not.


As for describing food in French, it's similar to French having been the language of diplomacy in Europe for hundreds of years- put it down to the inluence of people like Brillat-Savarin and Careme- and the Normans (who are said to have introduced rabbit to the British Isles), the Plantagenets, the Angevin Empire, and the unquenchable British desire for novelty in foods.

Sweet pasta, for instance, was a feature of Tudor feasts.


In any case, not all restaurants do it, but saying 'saucisson' rather than 'sausage' seems to elevate an ingredient or meal in some people's eyes.

It's entirely pointless trying to get rid of the French influence on British cooking, or the Roman influence on European cooking, or the Indian influence on British cooking, or the Italian influence on French cooking- when the Medicis married into the French Royal family, they brought with them many Italian cooking novelties, part and parcel of modern French cuisine.

	20-04-2005 15:01									#32
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quote: Originally posted by Drewcifer The true path to greatness lies elsewhere... I prefer the French Laundry's approach: make classic food perfectly.

Both are interesting pathes.

I've got to eat innovative and classic cuisine (often in the same restaurants btw), and both can be great. To me, this menu strikes me as pretty imaginative, regardless whether it's made with wiz toys or not. That's why I'd be curious to taste it, especially if the cooking team is adept enough to make it taste great.

OTOH, I agree with your comment about needing a gimmick to be in these top lists. I guess that's the reason why La Tupina made it there, while plenty of others (betters IMO) haven't.

	20-04-2005 15:05									#33
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quote: Originally posted by molly bloom As for describing food in French, it's similar to French having been the language of diplomacy in Europe for hundreds of years- put it down to the inluence of people like Brillat-Savarin and Careme- and the Normans (who are said to have introduced rabbit to the British Isles), the Plantagenets, the Angevin Empire, and the unquenchable British desire for novelty in foods.

That may be true for plenty of pretentious things, but I think the French influence in gourmet food is much more recent than that. Widespread French gourmet food, AFAIK, is a relatively recent phenomenon (probably not older than 19th century) and it has been under the spotlight for less than a century. Notably, the getting-old generation of gourmet chefs are one of the main reason why French food's reputation abroad is to be "expansive"

	20-04-2005 15:11									#34
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quote: Originally posted by molly bloom In any case, not all restaurants do it, but saying 'saucisson' rather than 'sausage' seems to elevate an ingredient or meal in some people's eyes.

And that is my exact point! Some things do have French terms just by the fact they have been invented by the French. But sausage/saucis (saucisson has a more specific meaning, eg, a sliced sausage so be careful there) is a perfect example! There is no reason why it just cannot be called a sausage...

	20-04-2005 15:14									#35
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quote: Originally posted by Spiffor That may be true for plenty of pretentious things, but I think the French influence in gourmet food is much more recent than that. Widespread French gourmet food, AFAIK, is a relatively recent phenomenon (probably not older than 19th century) and it has been under the spotlight for less than a century. Notably, the getting-old generation of gourmet chefs are one of the main reason why French food's reputation abroad is to be "expansive"

Blame Louis XIV- the Sun King with his more centralized monarchy, the elaborate feasts, the court etiquette, set the tone for other European monarchies.


Oh, and the British & Irish have been eating snails for a long time; sea snails, anyway.

They're called whelks this side of the Channel.

	20-04-2005 15:18									#36
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All univalve molluscs could be classed as 'snails' though by that logic...

	20-04-2005 15:19									#37
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quote: Originally posted by Provost Harrison But sausage/saucis (saucisson has a more specific meaning, eg, a sliced sausage so be careful there...

Gee, P.H. , who started this food thread ? Next you'll be explaining to me what charcuterie is.

	20-04-2005 15:25									#38
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quote: Originally posted by Provost Harrison And that is my exact point! Some things do have French terms just by the fact they have been invented by the French. But sausage/saucis (saucisson has a more specific meaning, eg, a sliced sausage so be careful there) is a perfect example! There is no reason why it just cannot be called a sausage...

Glad to see I'm not the one who dislikes the absurd use of foreign words only to make something sound more glitzy

	20-04-2005 15:29									#39
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quote: Originally posted by Oerdin Best Restaurant in the World: The French Laundry, CA, USA WE'RE NUMBER ONE! WE'RE NUMBER ONE!

Ah yes, you Calis are a bit like the Brits, when they say "Our food is great! Have you ever been to our Indian restaurants?"

	20-04-2005 15:32									#40
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quote: Originally posted by Spiffor Glad to see I'm not the one who dislikes the absurd use of foreign words only to make something sound more glitzy

Well, in English we have 'pottage' as in Jacob, Esau, and selling one's birthright for 'a mess of pottage', or the nursery rhyme about 'pease pottage'.

In French you have 'potage'.

Title: A Pilgrim's Lentil Pottage
Categories:
Yield: 8 Servings

2 ts Olive oil
2 Cloves garlic; finely
.. chopped
1 md Onion; chopped
8 c Cold water
1 1/2 c Lentils; rinsed in cold
.. water and drained
3 tb Ketchup
1/8 ts Ground cloves
1 1/2 ts Salt
Black pepper

Soften vegetables in oil in soup pot. Add water,
lentils, ketchup, cloves and salt; bring to a
boil. Reduce to low, cover and cook until lentils
are tender, about 45 minutes, adding more water if
needed. Season. If desired, add vinegar, wine, or
lemon juice for flavor.

http://www.nwljds.org.uk/YR%20learn...s%20of%20potage


Soup of the day- or soupe de jour.

Me, I prefer to describe a menu in the language of the country where it's being served up- otherwise we'd see an awful lot of Londoners trying desperately to bone up on Amharic, Arabic, Cantonese and Hindi.

	20-04-2005 15:34									#41
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quote: Originally posted by Spiffor Ah yes, you Calis are a bit like the Brits, when they say "Our food is great! Have you ever been to our Indian restaurants?"

He missed the point- which was that was last year's winner. Time moves on, but not in California, apparently:

" 19 April 2005


After London was named the Gourmet Capital of the World in March this year by the Gourmet Magazine, Britain has once again triumphed in the international culinary stakes, with 14 British restaurants recognised amongst Restaurant Magazine’s list of the 50 Best Restaurants in the World.

Leading the British pack is Heston Blumenthal of The Fat Duck in Bray, beating two-time winner (2003 & 2004) Thomas Keller of The French Laundry, to claim the top spot with his self-taught and highly admired molecular gastronomy. Coming top of the tree means Blumenthal also scoops the Best in Europe Award.

13 other high acclaimed British chefs also shone on the world stage, with renowned characters such as Gordon Ramsay (5th place), Tom Aikens (8th place), and Fergus Henderson of St. John (10th place) taking the tally of British establishments in the top 10 to an unprecedented four.

“I am very pleased with the 2005 list as it shows just how far Britain has come in terms of culinary output and the range of experiences we offer”, said Ella Johnston, editor of Restaurant Magazine. “On a global scale it is interesting to see concepts like Masa (USA), WD50 (USA) & El Bulli (Spain) still continue to innovate and inspire both chefs and restaurateurs,” she added.

Held on 18 April, 2005 in London ."

	20-04-2005 16:01									#42
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quote: Originally posted by molly bloom Gee, P.H. , who started this food thread ? Next you'll be explaining to me what charcuterie is.

	20-04-2005 16:05									#43
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quote: Originally posted by Provost Harrison

I'm sorry- I was just getting a bit testy because the caffeine from this morning's Turkish coffee was kicking in, and I haven't had lunch yet.

	20-04-2005 18:06									#44
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I have eatten at Spago's which doesn't have a gimmick and just has great food with really cool atmosphere. Of course it's number 30 or 40 on that list so maybe that's why its so far down.

	20-04-2005 18:08									#45
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quote: Originally posted by Spiffor Ah yes, you Calis are a bit like the Brits, when they say "Our food is great! Have you ever been to our Indian restaurants?"

There's great local food here too. Spago's is the original California Fusion restaurant and it's on the list. There are other's from California on the list but I'm not sure about the menu.

	20-04-2005 18:35									#46
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quote: Originally posted by molly bloom Well, in English we have 'pottage' as in Jacob, Esau, and selling one's birthright for 'a mess of pottage', or the nursery rhyme about 'pease pottage'. In French you have 'potage'. Title: A Pilgrim's Lentil Pottage Categories: Yield: 8 Servings 2 ts Olive oil 2 Cloves garlic; finely .. chopped 1 md Onion; chopped 8 c Cold water 1 1/2 c Lentils; rinsed in cold .. water and drained 3 tb Ketchup 1/8 ts Ground cloves 1 1/2 ts Salt Black pepper Soften vegetables in oil in soup pot. Add water, lentils, ketchup, cloves and salt; bring to a boil. Reduce to low, cover and cook until lentils are tender, about 45 minutes, adding more water if needed. Season. If desired, add vinegar, wine, or lemon juice for flavor. http://www.nwljds.org.uk/YR%20learn...s%20of%20potage Soup of the day- or soupe de jour. Me, I prefer to describe a menu in the language of the country where it's being served up- otherwise we'd see an awful lot of Londoners trying desperately to bone up on Amharic, Arabic, Cantonese and Hindi.

Ketchup is a condiment not a recipe ingredient! Any culture that uses ketchup in place of tomatoes in a recipe cannot be taken seriously on the world culinary stage.

	20-04-2005 18:41									#47
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quote: Originally posted by Oerdin There's great local food here too. Spago's is the original California Fusion restaurant and it's on the list. There are other's from California on the list but I'm not sure about the menu.

If I'm ever in Cali again, I gotta try Cali Fusion. Last time I was in Cali, the local cuisine I had were In'N'Out burgers (admittedly far superior to the McD's crap I know from here) and Seafood.

* Spiffor notes Spago's in his head

	20-04-2005 19:41									#48
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But as a great food lover, I won't say any kitchen is best.. every kitchen has some real treats.. MMmmm... and that's why I REALLY like the diversity in different country's and their dishes.. oh yeah.. please, no assimilation in there...

	20-04-2005 21:50									#49
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quote: Originally posted by Drewcifer God, that is one of the most pretentious menues I have ever seen. It is all about "look what I can do with my cool toys" and has no coherent thematic philosophy underlying it as a foundation. Fine cooking IMHO is all about getting the best ingredients possible and showing them off in a way that lets their natural beautifulness shine through. The monstrosity above is what happens when chefs cook with their ego and put that above their respect for the ingredients. Becuase food editors need to sell papers to a public that is enthralled with gee-whiz technology and are often such themselves these bs chefs and their bs food tend to get heaped with praise. I have been a professional cook and chef for 15 years mostly in fine dinning. Technology is useful but it is not the point of cooking, those nitro-blasters are abhorent, I would never allow one in my kitchen.

Completely agreed, though I wouldn' mind trying out the restaurant, it certainly wouldn't be my first choice.

	20-04-2005 21:57									#50
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quote: Originally posted by molly bloom France will be soon surrendering all its croissants to the Austrians, I suppose- perhaps on Turkey's admission to the E.U. .

All France's croissants are belong to us! The baguettes as well! Not to even mention the pain au chocolat, which belonged to us ever since it was created.

The english can keep their food though. Except for the mostaza!!

	20-04-2005 23:34									#51
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quote: Originally posted by molly bloom Have you eaten there ? Thought not. As for describing food in French, it's similar to French having been the language of diplomacy in Europe for hundreds of years- put it down to the inluence of people like Brillat-Savarin and Careme- and the Normans (who are said to have introduced rabbit to the British Isles), the Plantagenets, the Angevin Empire, and the unquenchable British desire for novelty in foods. Sweet pasta, for instance, was a feature of Tudor feasts. In any case, not all restaurants do it, but saying 'saucisson' rather than 'sausage' seems to elevate an ingredient or meal in some people's eyes. It's entirely pointless trying to get rid of the French influence on British cooking, or the Roman influence on European cooking, or the Indian influence on British cooking, or the Italian influence on French cooking- when the Medicis married into the French Royal family, they brought with them many Italian cooking novelties, part and parcel of modern French cuisine.

admit it. The food is crap. It's just dressed up as a way for rich people to feel superior to poor people eating tacos.

I'd rather have a taco than that crap.

	20-04-2005 23:55									#52
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quote: Originally posted by Dissident admit it. The food is crap. It's just dressed up as a way for rich people to feel superior to poor people eating tacos.

I can't say for that particular restaurant, but in the great restaurants where I went, food didn't taste like crap at all. And I went there to appreciate the good things in the plate and the glass, and I couldn't care less about the rich, the poor, or whatever else. What counted was pleasure.

	20-04-2005 23:57									#53
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quote: Originally posted by Spiffor I can't say for that particular restaurant, but in the great restaurants where I went, food didn't taste like crap at all. And I went there to appreciate the good things in the plate and the glass, and I couldn't care less about the rich, the poor, or whatever else. What counted was pleasure.

I should clarify. It's crap for the money you pay. I'm sure the food tastes decent (nearly all food tastes good to me). But I fail to see the reason to overpay for food.

	20-04-2005 23:58									#54
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Besides, I'm regularly eating Kebabs (the European equivalent of tacos), and I'm actually going there right now.

	21-04-2005 00:09									#55
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quote: Originally posted by Dissident I should clarify. It's crap for the money you pay. I'm sure the food tastes decent (nearly all food tastes good to me). But I fail to see the reason to overpay for food.

Actually, most of the good restaurants where I go don't have extremely overinflated prices. I have already eaten in excellent restaurants for about 60€ per person, which is worth about 5 days of a Kebap diet, 6 movies, or a console game.

Sometimes it can be ridiculously overpriced (several hundred €/$ for a meal), but I don't remember having ever been in a restaurant like that, because in my circle, we really enjoy the pleasure instead of the rich-man's-world decorum (and in some places indeed, the money you pay is much, much higher than the actual costs of ingredients and labour that went in your food).

I would even agree that a portion of these restaurants' customers are Rich people going there merely for the label. But your broadsweeping generalization is patently false. Many of the customers I've seen in these restaurants looked like locals, looked like families who had something to celebrate, looked like friends having a good evening. I have also seen the occasional couple or pre-couple. These were fairly normal people paying for an extra (and the extra can be affordable to the average middle-class person), and not stuck-up snotty richmen.

	21-04-2005 00:27									#56
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quote: Originally posted by Spiffor Besides, I'm regularly eating Kebabs (the European equivalent of tacos), and I'm actually going there right now.

moderately eating kebabs

Spain is the best place for Kebab! You get everything, turk kebab, arab kebab, shwarma, falafel, pollo, cerdo, tenera,... que quieres!

	21-04-2005 00:44									#57
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quote: Originally posted by Provost Harrison And that is my exact point! Some things do have French terms just by the fact they have been invented by the French. But sausage/saucis (saucisson has a more specific meaning, eg, a sliced sausage so be careful there) is a perfect example! There is no reason why it just cannot be called a sausage...

Creme Brulée. English through and through, named in French just to get a better rep it seems. In France its Creme Anglais, which is better than "Burnt Cream" I suppose.

Ever been to Strada (Italian of course) or Pret a Manger. Saying you are going to Strada or Pret sounds so much bettter than going to "Road" or "Ready". Admittedly there is a sandwich shop called EAT.

	21-04-2005 03:14									#58
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Oh some of the names they give these places are so silly though. I'm sure people would dine as 'Maison Merde' just because the name is in French

	21-04-2005 04:48									#59
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Well, there's a bakery in Bordeaux called "Au Pain Dégueulasse" (The Disgusting Bread's), and it get has plenty of clients

	23-04-2005 14:59									#60
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quote: Originally posted by Dissident I should clarify. It's crap for the money you pay. I'm sure the food tastes decent (nearly all food tastes good to me). But I fail to see the reason to overpay for food.

Why is it ?


(Give reasons, not just a gut feeling)