Apolyton Archive  |  Preserved copy of the Apolyton Civilization Site and its forums as they stood in September 2005. Read-only; nothing here can be posted to or replied to.  |  Forum index |  About this archive |  The 1998–2001 UBB forums
Today on Apolyton WARDELL INTERVIEW PROMO A.C.S. HISTORY CHAPTER 4 GET CIV4 /w FREE PLUS! A.C.S. PHOTO GALLERY GET A.O.M. V1.1
Apolyton Civilization Forums
main| civ2| civ3| civ4| smac| ctp2| ron| moo3| galciv| galciv2| alt| about|
ApolytonPLUS | register | search | faq | new posts | pm (-/-) | upload | members
hall of fame new! | civgroups | civgroups news | interviews | the column | radio | chat | directory | news | store | PLUS
Apolyton Civilization Forums : Powered by vBulletin version 2.0.3 Apolyton Civilization Forums > Miscellaneous > Off-Topic > Perfect crystallization of what's wrong with the Democrats
Show a Printable Version | Email This Page to Someone! | Receive updates to this thread | Report this to Apolyton news!
20.Sep: FOURTH CHAPTER IN `HISTORY OF...` PUBLISHED
13.Sep: NEWS ON THE FLY
06.Sep: APOLYTON DONATES TO HURRICANE RELIEF

bottom of page
   - CIVILIZATION 3 $9.99 - CIVILIZATION 2 from $6.95 - CIVILIZATION 2 from $4.25 - ALPHA CENTAURI + ALIEN CROSSFIRE (laptop collection) from $19.99 - ALPHA CENTAURI PC $9.99 -->
Author
Thread   
Pages (5): [ 1   2   3   4   5   ]
< Last Thread     Next Thread > Post New Thread     Post A Reply
Bosh is offline Bosh
Emperor
Taehan Mingook
Jan 1970
time: 00:17
  Old Post 28-04-2005 08:06
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#91 Report this post to a moderator
Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote:
Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
Ramo 1 - Ogie 0

Sory, Ogie, it's a crap editorial.


And wrong as well.

quote:
Yes, they defeated the Clinton health-care bill. But they also offered a highly detailed series of proposals for reform in Washington that offered voters a sense that Republicans weren't just reacting against Clintonism but were ready to supplant it with something better.

So the stupid editorial is saying that dem's aren't doing this?

http://reid.senate.gov/record.cfm?id=236871

quote:

Democrats Moving Forward With Promise Of America Agenda
Monday, April 25, 2005


WASHINGTON, DC – As Senate Republicans move closer to a partisan power grab that deals less with substance and more with right wing politics, Democrats are ready to move forward with an agenda that addresses the concerns of regular Americans throughout the nation.

Invoking a little-known Senate procedure called Rule XIV, the Democrats put nine bills on the Senate calendar that seek to help America fulfill its promise.

“Across the country, people are worried about things that matter to their families – the health of their loved ones, their child’s performance in schools, and those sky high gas prices,” said Senate Democratic Leader Harry Reid. “But what is the number one priority for Senate Republicans? Doing away with the last check on one-party rule in Washington to allow President Bush, Senator Frist and Tom Delay to stack the courts with radical judges. If Republicans proceed to pull the trigger on the nuclear option, Democrats will respond by employing existing Senate rules to push forward our agenda for America.”

Democrats have introduced bills that address America’s real challenges.

Women’s Health Care. “The Prevention First Act of 2005” will reduce the number of unintended pregnancies and abortions by increasing funding for family planning and ending health insurance discrimination against women.
Veterans’ Benefits. “The Retired Pay Restoration Act of 2005” will assist disabled veterans who, under current law, must choose to either receive their retirement pay or disability compensation.
Fiscal Responsibility. Democrats will move to restore fiscal discipline to government spending and extend the pay-as-you-go requirement.
Relief at the Pump. Democrats plan to halt the diversion of oil from the markets to the strategic petroleum reserve. By releasing oil from the reserve through a swap program, the plan will bring down prices at the pump.
Education. Democrats have a bill that will: strengthen head start and child care programs, improve elementary and secondary education, provide a roadmap for first generation and low-income college students, provide college tuition relief for students and their families, address the need for math, science and special education teachers, and make college affordable for all students .
Jobs. Democrats will work in support of legislation that guarantees overtime pay for workers and sets a fair minimum wage.
Energy Markets. Democrats work to prevent Enron-style market manipulation of electricity.
Corporate Taxation. Democrats make sure companies pay their fair share of taxes to the U.S. government instead of keeping profits overseas.
Standing with our troops. Democrats believe that putting America’s security first means standing up for our troops and their families.
“Abusing power is not what the American people sent us to Washington to do. We need to address real priorities instead -- fight for relief at the gas pump, stronger schools and lower health care costs for America’s families,” said Senator Reid.

Ogie Oglethorpe is offline Ogie Oglethorpe
King
Marietta, GA
Dec 1999
time: 05:17
  Old Post 28-04-2005 08:12
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#92 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

With the exception of the fiscal responsibility item nestled in the midst of that sh1t sandwitch there isn't much to brag about.

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
King
Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
time: 00:17
  Old Post 28-04-2005 08:27 Visit chegitz guevara's homepage!
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#93 Report this post to a moderator
Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

The Dems suck, the GOP blows, and America gets nothing but air.

Drake Tungsten is offline Drake Tungsten
Prince
Knee deep in alien womyn...
Oct 2001
time: 14:17
Wink  Old Post 28-04-2005 08:41
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#94 Report this post to a moderator
Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote:
Originally posted by chegitz guevara


Bosh is offline Bosh
Emperor
Taehan Mingook
Jan 1970
time: 00:17
  Old Post 28-04-2005 09:08
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#95 Report this post to a moderator
Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote:
Originally posted by Ogie Oglethorpe
With the exception of the fiscal responsibility item nestled in the midst of that sh1t sandwitch there isn't much to brag about.

So?
I wasn't saying otherwise, I was just rebutting a false claim in the editorial.

Oerdin is offline Oerdin
King
of Internet Music.
Sep 2001
time: 21:17
  Old Post 28-04-2005 16:46
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#96 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Since we've been talking about the filibuster it is interesting to see what prominent anti-filibuster groups have said about the filibuster in the past. The ultra conservative Family Research Council (FRC) today screams almost daily about how the filibuster is unconstitutional but MSNBC's Keith Olbermann has uncovered films from the late 1990's when the FRC was gushing on and on about how American and how fair it was to use the filibuster.

Of course back in those days the Democrats had a plurality in the Senate and the FRC was strong arming right wingers into filibustering James C. Hormel (Clinton's nominee for ambassador to Luxembourg) on the grounds that Mr. Hormel was gay.

quote:

Olbermann uncovers Family Research Council filibuster flip-flop

MSNBC host Keith Olbermann noted that the Family Research Council (FRC), which is currently campaigning to stop filibusters of President Bush's judicial nominees by Senate Democrats, was quite vocal in the late 1990s in defending the right to filibuster another presidential nominee, James C. Hormel, who was nominated by President Clinton as ambassador to Luxembourg.

On the April 25 edition of MSNBC's Countdown with Keith Olbermann, host Olbermann recounted a statement made July 2, 1998, on National Public Radio by FRC senior writer Steven Schwalm:

OLBERMANN: As mentioned, the filibuster stretches back not merely to Jimmy Stewart in Mr. Smith Goes to Washington, but to the presidential administration of Franklin Pierce 152 years ago. And, as a last measure of the defense of the minority, it has had many supporters over the years, like the very people of faith who sponsored yesterday's "Justice Sunday," the group Family Research Council.

Yesterday, it was opposed to filibusters. Seven years ago, it was in favor of them. That's when Clinton and a then-Democratic plurality in the Senate wanted a man named James Hormel to become the ambassador to Luxembourg. Hormel, of the Spam-and-other-meats Hormels, was gay, as the Senate minority bottled up Hormel's nomination with filibusters and threats of filibusters, minority relative to cloture, to breaking up a filibuster.

They did that for a year and a half. The Family Research Council's senior writer, Steven Schwalm, appeared on National Public Radio at the time and explained the value, even the necessity, of the filibuster.

"The Senate," he said, "is not a majoritarian institution, like the House of Representatives is. It is a deliberative body, and it's got a number of checks and balances built into our government. The filibuster is one of those checks in which a majority cannot just sheerly force its will, even if they have a majority of votes in some cases. That's why there are things like filibusters, and other things that give minorities in the Senate some power to slow things up, to hold things up, and let things be aired properly."

It's been said many times, many ways, that was then, and this is now.


Just more lies and spin from Republican hypocrits.

http://mediamatters.org/items/200504260005

Drake Tungsten is offline Drake Tungsten
Prince
Knee deep in alien womyn...
Oct 2001
time: 14:17
  Old Post 28-04-2005 17:04
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#97 Report this post to a moderator
Increase Your PM Length

Oerdin (and others) agreeing with the Family Research Council

Oerdin is offline Oerdin
King
of Internet Music.
Sep 2001
time: 21:17
  Old Post 28-04-2005 17:12
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#98 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

I guess I do agree with their 1990's stance though I enjoy highlighting their flip flops more.

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
King
Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
time: 00:17
  Old Post 28-04-2005 19:32 Visit chegitz guevara's homepage!
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#99 Report this post to a moderator
Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

As I was coming home from an interview, there was a "Save Our Courts" demonstration in front of the Federal Court House in downtown FtL.

GePap is offline GePap
King
of the Big Apple
Nov 2001
time: 23:17
  Old Post 28-04-2005 19:36
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#100 Report this post to a moderator
Get a bigger avatar today!

quote:
Originally posted by Ogie Oglethorpe
Regarding Senate rule changes and the effect in the past 30 years.

1975 - Change from 2/3 to 3/5 supermajority to end fillibuster completed via majority senate vote - responsible party Dems

1977 - Change to eliminate post cloture fillibusters via Senate majority - responsible praty Dems (Byrd)

1979 - Limitation of Amendments to Appropriations bills via Senate majority = responsible party Dems (Byrd)

1980 - Precedent for consideration of nominations (order of executive calendar) via Sente majority = responsible party Dems (Byrd)

1987 - Change in voting procedures (essentially elimination of delay tactics) via Senate majority = responsible party Dems (Byrd)



Wow, so many changes that have helped speed up the process while allowing the minority, of either the party in power, OR the opposition, to still have some say.

Why can't republicans learn from this legacy of vast democratic majorities allowing some power to the weak?

Ogie Oglethorpe is offline Ogie Oglethorpe
King
Marietta, GA
Dec 1999
time: 05:17
  Old Post 28-04-2005 19:59
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#101 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Sure a change 1975 to move the super majority from 67% to 60% is SOOOOO much different than a move in procedure to change it from 60% to 51%.

A whole 2% different!

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
King
Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
time: 00:17
  Old Post 28-04-2005 20:02 Visit chegitz guevara's homepage!
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#102 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote:
Originally posted by Ogie Oglethorpe
Sure a change 1975 to move the super majority from 67% to 60% is SOOOOO much different than a move in procedure to change it from 60% to 51%.

A whole 2% different!


Technically, no. It's a 50% difference. 60 is 90% of 67. 51 is 85% of 60. 15 is 50% more than 10.

GePap is offline GePap
King
of the Big Apple
Nov 2001
time: 23:17
  Old Post 28-04-2005 20:03
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#103 Report this post to a moderator
Inflate your Upload Space

quote:
Originally posted by Ogie Oglethorpe
Sure a change 1975 to move the super majority from 67% to 60% is SOOOOO much different than a move in procedure to change it from 60% to 51%.

A whole 2% different!


When is the last time any party had a 68-32 advantage in the Senate?

Or even a 60-40 advantage?

But a 51-49 advantage, that's easy.

The difference is profound.

Ogie Oglethorpe is offline Ogie Oglethorpe
King
Marietta, GA
Dec 1999
time: 05:17
  Old Post 28-04-2005 20:07
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#104 Report this post to a moderator
Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

Implications aside the precedent has been set numerous time by the Dems. Had they not wanted the nuclear/constitutional/byrd option to be used against them they should have been cognizant of the implications back when they were in power.

I find it a stroke of poetic justice that Byrd is reaping exactly what he sowed. Couple that with his impotent raging and it makes it that much more sweet. May the racist bastard choke on his own bile.

GePap is offline GePap
King
of the Big Apple
Nov 2001
time: 23:17
  Old Post 28-04-2005 20:10
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#105 Report this post to a moderator
Got spare money?

quote:
Originally posted by Ogie Oglethorpe
Implications aside the precedent has been set numerous time by the Dems. Had they not wanted the nuclear/constitutional/byrd option to be used against them they should have been cognizant of the implications back when they were in power.


Except the democrats have never moved to remove the ability TO FILLIBUSTER-they changed its effectiveness and use. NO precedent was set for the "nuclear option". This is why you continue to be wrong.

quote:

I find it a stroke of poetic justice that Byrd is reaping exactly what he sowed. Couple that with his impotent raging and it makes it that much more sweet. May the racist bastard choke on his own bile.


Remind me, did you castigate Sava for his behavior when Strum died?

Ogie Oglethorpe is offline Ogie Oglethorpe
King
Marietta, GA
Dec 1999
time: 05:17
  Old Post 28-04-2005 20:43
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#106 Report this post to a moderator
Tired of ads?

quote:
Originally posted by GePap


Except the democrats have never moved to remove the ability TO FILLIBUSTER-they changed its effectiveness and use. NO precedent was set for the "nuclear option". This is why you continue to be wrong.


Nor do the repubs it's just that 51% is required to break said delaying tactic. Discussion and debate is still intact.

and by the way

a) in 1977 that set of closed loopholes did prevent filibuster after cloture.

b) in 1979 it eliminated fillibuster opportunities for appropriations amendments

c) in 1980 it changged the order of the executive calendar to prevent fillibustering on preceding orders of business

all prevented fillibuster in one fashion or another with get this a mere majority of the senate.

However in 1987 the repubs were simply just being ****** with their tactic of being asked to be excused from the vote ad infinitum and rightly were spanked. Had that not been stopped a mere 2 senators could bring everything to a halt.

quote:

Remind me, did you castigate Sava for his behavior when Strum died?


Choking on bile does not imply death merely a long term suffering.

Last edited by Ogie Oglethorpe on 28-04-2005 at 20:52

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
King
Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
time: 00:17
  Old Post 28-04-2005 20:45 Visit chegitz guevara's homepage!
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#107 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote:
Originally posted by Ogie Oglethorpe
Nor do the repubs it's just that 51% is required to break said delaying tactic. Discussion and debate is still intact.


It completely eradicates the point of filibuster.

GePap is offline GePap
King
of the Big Apple
Nov 2001
time: 23:17
  Old Post 28-04-2005 20:50
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#108 Report this post to a moderator
Suffering from ads?

I see Ogie's and I raise a

Ogie Oglethorpe is offline Ogie Oglethorpe
King
Marietta, GA
Dec 1999
time: 05:17
  Old Post 28-04-2005 20:50
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#109 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Dans'd

GePap is offline GePap
King
of the Big Apple
Nov 2001
time: 23:17
  Old Post 28-04-2005 20:53
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#110 Report this post to a moderator
Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote:
Originally posted by Ogie Oglethorpe
a) in 1977 that set of closed loopholes did prevent filibuster after cloture.

b) in 1979 it eliminated fillibuster opportunities for appropriations amendments

c) in 1980 it changged the order of the executive calendar to prevent fillibustering on preceding orders of business

all prevented fillibuster in one fashion or another with get this a mere majority of the senate.


Thanks for the info DanS'er.

Ogie Oglethorpe is offline Ogie Oglethorpe
King
Marietta, GA
Dec 1999
time: 05:17
  Old Post 28-04-2005 21:01
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#111 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Seriously if you wanna read about it heres the link from Harvard


Gold & Gupta Harvard Journal of Law and Public Policy report

DinoDoc is offline DinoDoc
Emperor
AECCP loves Democracy
Sep 1999
time: 23:17
  Old Post 28-04-2005 21:46
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#112 Report this post to a moderator
Inflate your Upload Space

quote:
Originally posted by Oerdin
Of course back in those days the Democrats had a plurality in the Senate and the FRC was strong arming right wingers into filibustering James C. Hormel (Clinton's nominee for ambassador to Luxembourg) on the grounds that Mr. Hormel was gay.
As long as we're dragging out quotes:

"What we are witnessing today is a direct assault on the President¹s constitutional power to nominate and appoint judges. Deliberate efforts are being made in Congress to undermine the judicial independence that is at the heart of the rule of law. Advise and consent in the Senate is becoming abuse and dissent." (Senator Edwards Kennedy, Prepared Remarks To The Alliance For Justice, April 30, 1997)

"For too long, we have accepted the premise that the filibuster rule is immune. Yet, Mr. President, there is no constitutional basis for it. We impose it on ourselves. And if I may say so respectfully, it is, in its way, inconsistent with the Constitution, one might almost say an amendment of the Constitution by rule of the U.S. Senate. "(Senator Joseph Lieberman, Congressional Record, January 4, 1995)

In 1995, the only Senators on record supporting the end of the filibuster were all Democrats, nine of whom are still serving in the Senate. (Karen Hosler, "Senators Vote 76-19 To Maintain Filibuster," The Baltimore Sun, January 6, 1995; S.Res. 14, CQ Vote #1: Motion Agreed To 76-19: R 53-0; D 23-19, January 5, 1995, Bingaman, Boxer, Feingold, Harkin, Kennedy, Kerry, Lautenberg, Lieberman, and Sarbanes Voted Nay)

Edit:

It is an example of Government not fulfilling its constitutional mandate because the President nominates, and we are charged with voting on the nominees." (Senator Charles Schumer, Congressional Record, March 7, 2000)

Just more lies and spin from Democratic hypocrits.

Last edited by DinoDoc on 28-04-2005 at 21:57

Ogie Oglethorpe is offline Ogie Oglethorpe
King
Marietta, GA
Dec 1999
time: 05:17
  Old Post 28-04-2005 22:15
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#113 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Dino surely Oberman covered those Dem quotes as well, no?

Bosh is offline Bosh
Emperor
Taehan Mingook
Jan 1970
time: 00:17
  Old Post 28-04-2005 22:17
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#114 Report this post to a moderator
Put an end to popups!

quote:
Just more lies and spin from Democratic hypocrits.

Which are exactly the same as the spin and lies from the Republican hypocrites. Its just hilarious that anyone thinks that either side has ANY moral high ground on this issue.

Ogie Oglethorpe is offline Ogie Oglethorpe
King
Marietta, GA
Dec 1999
time: 05:17
  Old Post 28-04-2005 22:19
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#115 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I certainly don't. Which is why when the issue of rules change is brought up one merely need look at precedent and deal with it dispassionately.

DinoDoc is offline DinoDoc
Emperor
AECCP loves Democracy
Sep 1999
time: 23:17
  Old Post 28-04-2005 22:23
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#116 Report this post to a moderator
Get a bigger avatar today!

quote:
Originally posted by Bosh

Which are exactly the same as the spin and lies from the Republican hypocrites. Its just hilarious that anyone thinks that either side has ANY moral high ground on this issue.
I don't. The harping Oerdin was doing about the EVIL Republicans on this issue was annoying so I took the opening he provided.

Oerdin is offline Oerdin
King
of Internet Music.
Sep 2001
time: 21:17
  Old Post 28-04-2005 22:57
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#117 Report this post to a moderator
Get a bigger avatar today!

If both majority groups at different time didn't like the filibuster then it is likely a good rule and should stay since it prevents extremists from being put in place.

Republicans do have some very bad policies and I do believe their leadership is filled with deeply immoral people but I don't recall ever saying the Republicans were evil.

Odin is offline Odin
Prince
Biology Nerd at Minnesota State University Moorhead
Sep 2000
time: 23:17
  Old Post 28-04-2005 23:32
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#118 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

I find it absolutely incredible that the fundies say the reason they want to pack the court with theocrats is to "preserve religious freedom". The only freedom the Fundies want is the religious freedom to stone gay people.

Boris Godunov is offline Boris Godunov
King
Portland, OR
Aug 2001
time: 00:17
  Old Post 29-04-2005 09:26
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#119 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote:
Originally posted by DinoDoc
Just more lies and spin from Democratic hypocrits.


Back at ya.

http://66.102.7.104/search?q=cache:.../> licans&hl=en

quote:

It is disingenuous for Republicans to now claim that all judicial nominees should get votes on the floor of the Senate after they blocked scores of judicial nominees from ever receiving a Committee hearing or a vote. Democrats repeatedly called for nominees to be given a Committee vote, up or down. Now that judicial nominees are finally receiving due process, Republicans do not like the results.

While only two of President Bush's judicial nominees have been defeated in open votes, nearly 60 of President Clinton's judicial nominees were defeated through secret, anonymous holds and other secretive, non-transparent Republican tactics.


The Democrats were complaining about the GOP using such tactics, not the fillibuster. Democrats aren't holding up Bush nominees in committee with secretive tactics, after all.

DinoDoc is offline DinoDoc
Emperor
AECCP loves Democracy
Sep 1999
time: 23:17
  Old Post 29-04-2005 09:31
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#120 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote:
Originally posted by Boris Godunov
Back at ya.
Your senator disagrees with your view of the matter.

 
Pages (5): [ 1   2   3   4   5   ]
< Last Thread     Next Thread > Post New Thread     Post A Reply
All times are GMT. The time now is 05:17.
Apolyton Time is 00:17.
    top of page
Rate This Thread:
Forum Jump:
Forum Rules:
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is ON
vB code is ON
Smilies are ON
[IMG] code is ON
 




Contact Us - Apolyton Civilization Site - Support Us!

Building a better Apolyton through better information. Click here and take our poll!
Non-US visitors, click here!

Powered by: vBulletin Version 2.0.3
Copyright ©2000, 2001, Jelsoft Enterprises Limited.

Page generated in 0.0650 seconds (92.58% PHP - 7.42% MySQL) with 30 queries
Page Loading Time:

Support Apolyton: Amazon USA | Amazon UK | Amazon DE | Amazon FR |
Support Apolyton and get FREE PLUS, Buy from Chips&Bits: Galactic Civilizations | Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition | Call to Power 2 | Civilization: The Boardgame | GURPS/ Alpha Centauri | Alpha Centauri | Civilization IV | Civilization III: Complete |


Front Page | Civilization IV | Civilization III | Civilization II | Call to Power II | Alpha Centauri | Master of Orion III
Rise of Nations | Galactic Civilizations | Galactic Civilizations II | Misc
Alt.Civs | Civ I | C:CtP I | About | News | Directory | Apolyton Store | Forums | Chat | Columns | Interviews | Newsletter
Scenario League | CSC | Clash of Civs | Spanish Site | CtP Maps | Cradle of Civ | WesW's Ctp1/2 Site | Civ3 Haven

apolyton.net | apolyton.com | civilization2.net | civilization3.net | civilization4.net | civilizationiv.info | calltopower.net | galciv.net | galciv2.net | moo3.net