28-04-2005 12:11									#31
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quote: Originally posted by Az Bullshit. The settlers can take care of themselves. I have little doubt of this, really. The arab fighters are complete numbskulls and have a shite learning curve.

The Arab fighters manage to kill a significant number of them even when the IDF is around to protect them.

Without the Army backing their asses up you'd see the outlying settlements be the first to go. The ones nearer the frontier would probably be safe. But Israel wouldn't be able to let it get that far. They'd find it politically untenable to allow settlers to be killed and do nothing.

	28-04-2005 12:13									#32
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Of course, of course, but "I'll bet" shows a certain amount of prejudice.

KH, with regards to any ensuing fighting on the territories:

My proposition is the following:

-Army Leaves.
-Settlers who want to leave, can leave, as well.
-Settlers who don't want to leave, don't.

Why am I sure that the settlers won't be in existential danger? Because:
A) just like the palestinians, Settlers have their own means, and can procure arms.
B) They're much better organized.

	28-04-2005 12:16									#33
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You ooze "prejudice" Az. Your bias is very evident.

	28-04-2005 12:19									#34
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quote: Originally posted by Az Of course, of course, but "I'll bet" shows a certain amount of prejudice. KH, with regards to any ensuing fighting on the territories: My proposition is the following: -Army Leaves. -Settlers who want to leave, can leave, as well. -Settlers who don't want to leave, don't. Why am I sure that the settlers won't be in existential danger? Because: A) just like the palestinians, Settlers have their own means, and can procure arms. B) They're much better organized.

c) There's a lot less of them than there are Palestinians, and the ones who would be in danger are the ones who are isolated in outlying settlements, effectively increasing their numerical inferiority.

	28-04-2005 12:22									#35
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We all have our general prejudices. However, you show prejudice WRT this particular case - and this is wierd. I just see that republicans didn't vote for more armor. It just surprises me, that's all.

	28-04-2005 12:29									#36
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quote: c) There's a lot less of them than there are Palestinians, and the ones who would be in danger are the ones who are isolated in outlying settlements, effectively increasing their numerical inferiority.

no settlements are truly isolated. They're all in a visual distance from each other. And the numerical inferiority isn't important - Again, there are many professional soldiers, and trained people there. And I am not even talking about the outside help, from volunteers, and stuff, that they'll get.

	28-04-2005 12:41									#37
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quote: Originally posted by Lancer Wait a sec, Oerdin, did the dems add something to it like a billion $ for gay whales?

Not to my knowledge. You have the same news report I have posted in the OP.

	28-04-2005 13:42									#38
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well well well, look at the hypocracy by the republicans. looks like they not only use the religious right, they also use the nationalistic and militaristic voting bloc for their own gains. feeling used there lancer? you should be.

	28-04-2005 19:44									#39
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quote: Originally posted by Oerdin I[t] just seems like Republican law makers are very hypocritical. . . .

You could have stopped right there.

	28-04-2005 19:53									#40
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quote: Originally posted by Az no settlements are truly isolated. They're all in a visual distance from each other. And the numerical inferiority isn't important - Again, there are many professional soldiers, and trained people there. And I am not even talking about the outside help, from volunteers, and stuff, that they'll get.

And who will reach the settlements from? JOrdan? (that haven of Jewish lovers), or Egypt? (another haven of Jew-lovers?)

Of course, you will have the ships docking in Hebron..... OR those convoys through Palestinian territory..... Oh, wait....

Simplest way to end a settlement? Siege. Cut them off from any food supply, cut of their water and electricity and fuel shipments to eventually cut the use of generators. Then sit back. Without water or resupply, that's the end of it. Even the best military force will wither away when surrounded, and a bunch of families will certainly not last long.

You don't need a learning curve at all.

	28-04-2005 19:59									#41
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To be honest, I think the Army should decide on this, not the congress. Why should the congress be micromanaging such stuff?

If there's a problem in the Army management and decision-making on this stuff, then that needs to be addressed. But with votes like this, the symptoms are being treated rather than the disease.

	28-04-2005 20:05									#42
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quote: Originally posted by DanS To be honest, I think the Army should decide on this, not the congress. Why should the congress be micromanaging such stuff? If there's a problem in the Army management and decision-making on this stuff, then that needs to be addressed. But with votes like this, the symptoms are being treated rather than the disease.

And a good doctor will treat both. Only the party in power though can treat the disease. Please tell us DanS why your party is so irresponsible as to not treat the disease.

	28-04-2005 21:22									#43
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DanS: Congressmen want pork and they want control over the money to control where the pork goes.

	28-04-2005 21:24									#44
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To quote Ming from the Airbus A380 thread:

quote: You just aren't looking at the big picture... I worked on a major defense contractor account for over 17 years, and got to see what a distinct advantage they had on the commercial side thanks to their defense contracts... they would sit around and discuss it while laughing about it... If you truely think that defense contracts are soley awarded based on the value of the specific proposal, you are living in a fantasy world

quote: On one HUGE defense contract, the key was setting up production and supplier support in as many congressional districts as possible... spreading the jobs out to as many "votes" as they could... so even if the contract came under fire, there was a built in base of law makers who had a vested interest in keeping the jobs in their districts

	28-04-2005 22:15									#45
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Why did Inoue vote against it?

	28-04-2005 22:30									#46
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quote: Originally posted by GePap And who will reach the settlements from? JOrdan? (that haven of Jewish lovers), or Egypt? (another haven of Jew-lovers?) Of course, you will have the ships docking in Hebron..... OR those convoys through Palestinian territory..... Oh, wait.... Simplest way to end a settlement? Siege. Cut them off from any food supply, cut of their water and electricity and fuel shipments to eventually cut the use of generators. Then sit back. Without water or resupply, that's the end of it. Even the best military force will wither away when surrounded, and a bunch of families will certainly not last long. You don't need a learning curve at all.

hmm .. . . Do you think that Israelis have lost the spirit that allowed them to survive in many many small isolated settlements when openly attacked by a number of Arab nations all at once? they have done this before against even bigger odds than settlers would face now.

If settlers remain, I don't think Israel would stand by and allow them to be attacked with tanks or aircraft or would allow a siege to continue. On the siege, the effectiveness would depend on the location of the settlements but if the sttelements followed the old kibbutz model at all, they would be situated with a water source and a fair ability to be self-sustaining. Prior to the formation of Israel, they really had little other choice.

Looking at their history, I wouldn't ever bet against the Israelis

	28-04-2005 22:36									#47
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]/[
And who will reach the settlements from? JOrdan? (that haven of Jewish lovers), or Egypt? (another haven of Jew-lovers?)

Of course, you will have the ships docking in Hebron..... OR those convoys through Palestinian territory..... Oh, wait....

Simplest way to end a settlement? Siege. Cut them off from any food supply, cut of their water and electricity and fuel shipments to eventually cut the use of generators. Then sit back. Without water or resupply, that's the end of it. Even the best military force will wither away when surrounded, and a bunch of families will certainly not last long.

You don't need a learning curve at all.[/q]

Erm, ISRAEL will allow movement to the settlements. It simply won't be actively participating in anything.

If you think that the palestinian militants will be able to actively apply a siege you're highly optimistic, anyhow.

	28-04-2005 23:11									#48
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quote: Originally posted by DRoseDARs John Ensign (R-Naturally) voted Nay. Big f***ing suprise. Because it would force them to acknowledge that since the very beginning of this conflict our troops have never been fully supplied due to poor planning by the Bush Administration et al.

yeah, that ******* visited the middle east too (though I'm not sure if he visited with the troops). Actually I didn't think he was that bad until today.

	28-04-2005 23:44									#49
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Why not scrap the settlers' tax breaks first?

	29-04-2005 00:20									#50
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Well I was unable to contact any of Sen Smith's offices by phone as his machines were all full. I sent him an email telling that I'm a fellow republican and asking why he voted against armored humvees for our troops and expressed concern over that vote, asking for an explanation as soon as possible.

If you are an Oregonian and wish to contact him and express a view, here's his site.

http://gsmith.senate.gov/

	29-04-2005 00:30									#51
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Lancer actually thinks that a politician cares about ordinary people's lives! Touching...

Send him 50 000 grand for a trip to London and maybe he'll get back to you...otherwise be ready for the Standard Automatic Reply.

	29-04-2005 00:34									#52
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Well that's ok...but then he better get ready for the standard 'vote for the gay whale loving commie lefty socialist treehugger next time just to get rid of Sen Smith' reply.

	29-04-2005 01:32									#53
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quote: DanS: Congressmen want pork and they want control over the money to control where the pork goes.

I understand this and the purse is the congress's, not the president's. On the other hand, during war time the Army is given a lot more leeway on spending. So why isn't there a normal procedure in the Army for getting uparmored humvees when needed? Is Army management that incompetent?

	29-04-2005 01:33									#54
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i think its clear: all the republicans and their constitutents who voted against this bill are unpatriotic and unamerican.

	29-04-2005 01:46									#55
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Well it would be pretty easy... take the kids of the congressmen... put them in a training camp, send them to iraq and watch how quickly body armor will start piling up.

	29-04-2005 01:47									#56
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LoA, you're wrong.

Democrats and Liberals are unpatriotic and unamerican.

Republicans are beyond reproach!

	29-04-2005 02:11									#57
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Where exactly is reproach? Is that outside Cleveland?

	29-04-2005 02:16									#58
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Nah. It's closer to Dahlonega.

	29-04-2005 02:20									#59
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quote: Originally posted by Q Cubed LoA, you're wrong. Democrats and Liberals are unpatriotic and unamerican. Republicans are beyond reproach!

Q, I would not include conservative Democrats in your list of the anti-Americans.

	29-04-2005 02:21									#60
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See a pattern in those posts, Ned?