06-05-2005 21:34									#31
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DD, well that's a difficult one. They kind of did, the Finlandization definitely happened, and it's only getting out now that some people were pretty commie in the 70s, and ready to do just about anything to make the larger audience not like west or definitely the US. It still shows some fruit these days, but it is known and the perpetrators behind it are known, so this country is slowly moving towards west more and mroe even though it is west but.. the mentality is also slowly getting anti-x and pro-west more and more.

OK, so SU wanted it to happen, but I wouldn't blame them, it was our own citizens who did it. They made sure it happened. It was us who did it to us. Even though SU played a big part in it, I would say not guilty.

	06-05-2005 21:37									#32
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not only did they occupy the baltics they illegally attacked us and tried to take us out . . . good thing we ***** slapped the **** outta them. my grandpa fought in that war. they captured just enough land to bury their dead.

	06-05-2005 21:40									#33
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Let's keep it in the 'we didn't occupy baltics' part . We've had these other kind of threads before and they are always long and it ends the same way.

I think what's more meaningful is that they didn't just do 'no comments' aka not apologizing. They said it never happened. THAT'S the important part.

	06-05-2005 21:42									#34
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Next step would be "The Baltics didn't exist".

	06-05-2005 21:45									#35
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Hey, look. There's the carcass of the Soviet Union. Let's kick the crap of it!

All good fun in these parts.

	06-05-2005 21:47									#36
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BeBro, I agree, because there are implications to such statements. It's only one step away. This is definitely not a statement from a friendly neighbour to another. Make no mistake about it.

It's only one step away to deny baltics as a region, or to make it their fault, in fact. Only one step away. And that step is direct act of hostility, even if non-violent. The current statement almost defies the status of baltics already.

But it's not the dark days anymore, NATO is here and one thing we can rely on, I believe, is that there won't be further provocations because simply even though Euros could sell out baltics, US could not. And because of that, Euros have to stick with it too. We are living in interesting times...

And when I made the thread the attack is imminent, everyone asked what drugs I had taken , and I showed you the recent steps taken, now I can add this and it makes sense even more . What's up now? Attack is not imminent, but hostilities are already here. I say BRING THE INSULTING WORDS½!!! We are loading our nasty profanities as I speakj!

Nah just cool down everyone. No need for this crap.

	06-05-2005 21:50									#37
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quote: Originally posted by BeBro Next step would be "The Baltics didn't exist".

Almost done. They said that, since the governments in the Baltics then were Soviet, then the declarations of independence accepted by these governments were not legal if the governments themselves were not. Interestingly, this came on May the 4th, an anniversary of when the Latvian Highest Council announced the independence declaration (more than a year before independence was actually gained).

	06-05-2005 21:52									#38
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quote: even though Euros could sell out baltics, US could not

Would not, rather. This is something of a freebie for us. Just continuing to reap the rewards of the fall of the SU. It's a gift that keeps on giving.

	06-05-2005 22:01									#39
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yeah but it's true, what I said.

It doesn't mean euros in NATO would automatically step down, no, there definitely would be hostilities and words and demands, tough ones, maybe even mobilization, but they would also look for backchannels to get a great reason, a valid one, how they could stay out of it at the end.

US does not have the same option in NATO. Thus, it would be a pre-emptive in a way that euros would not back down so easily and look excuses to get out. Of course, such security breaches would extend to here as well, to non-NATO countries and mobilization would be imminent. The big bear knows this, and it's definitely not stupid.. it's just playing chess here, keeping people on their toes and throwing weight aorund. I personally think this is the old strategy of the demanding kid. You see how far you can go without any real consequences, and then you stay put and get all the benefits in that position. You don't move back, but you suggest you might be moving forward to see if you can further your space and demands. This is exactly what is happening now. Unfortuantely to many, it's not a fun game.

	06-05-2005 22:06									#40
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Hm, I dont think the EU would accept another Munich 38 style thing for the Baltics if you mean that. And Russian demands about that (no idea how probable they are) would unite the US and Europe quite quickly on that issue, since they would remind them easily on cold war times.

	06-05-2005 22:14									#41
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Serb being an ass again:

Serb, the baltic countries have a right to exist, they are totaly diferent ethinic groups, THEY'RE NOT EVEN SLAVS!

	06-05-2005 22:21									#42
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Pekka You show that revisionist, Serb, who's boss .

	06-05-2005 22:59									#43
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quote: Originally posted by Serb One more thing, current regimes of Baltic States are Nazi regimes. Have a nice night.

What is true, is that today's Russia has become a fascist state.

	06-05-2005 23:04									#44
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quote: Originally posted by Ned What is true, is that today's Russia has become a fascist state.

Not yet, but it's walking close to the edge.

	06-05-2005 23:30									#45
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Pekka wrote:

quote: And when I made the thread the attack is imminent, everyone asked what drugs I had taken , and I showed you the recent steps taken, now I can add this and it makes sense even more . What's up now? Attack is not imminent, but hostilities are already here.

I remember that one. That was when you posted a screenshot from Russian TV showing a map of Russia and a Russian flag over Finland. And you were shown that the flag is actually the logo of Russian TV, and Finland happened to be in the upper left partof the screen, where logo is positioned.

What an incredible pwnage that was

	06-05-2005 23:49									#46
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quote: Originally posted by Odin Serb being an ass again:

F. yourself, mister.

quote: Serb, the baltic countries have a right to exist, they are totaly diferent ethinic groups, THEY'RE NOT EVEN SLAVS!

I KNOW!
FURTHERMORE, I BELIEVE THEY SURE HAVE RIGHT TO EXIST. BUT THE PROBLEM IS THAT CURRENTLY THEY ARE A NAZI COUNTRIES AND I BELIEVE THAT ALL NAZI REGIMES SHOULD BE DESTROYED.

	06-05-2005 23:57									#47
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quote: Originally posted by Ned What is true, is that today's Russia has become a fascist state.

FYI, fascism is banned in Russia. Aside the Baltic States where SS veterans and young members of neo-nazi organizations freely march through the streets of their capitals (because the authorities ley them do so, and even more, send police units to kick the crap out of anti-fascists who protest such nazi parades), where they name they kindergardens after the commanders of SS divisions, where they build monuments to SS soldiers, where soldiers who fought vs. nazism in WW2 can wear their WW2 medals only if they got permission of the president, otherwise its illegal (on the other head SS f*ckers can wear their iron crosses for all they care), aside all that sh!t, in Russia you'll find yourself in prison if you are involved in any fascist activity.

	06-05-2005 23:58									#48
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui Pekka You show that revisionist, Serb, who's boss .

I'm not in the mood for a showdown. I'm tired of your stinking sandbox and I'm leaving forever.

Da poshli vy vse na hui.

Fare f*cking well.
And I'm not f*cking joking. I'm leaving Apolyton forever. Pity, pity brainwashed suckers unable to think freely.

	07-05-2005 00:00									#50
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quote: Originally posted by Serb FYI, fascism is banned in Russia. Aside the Baltic States where SS veterans and young members of neo-nazi organizations freely march through the streets of their capitals (because the authorities ley them do so, and even more, send police units to kick the crap out of anti-fascists who protest such nazi parades), where they name they kindergardens after the commanders of SS divisions, where they build monuments to SS soldiers, where soldiers who fought vs. nazism in WW2 can wear their WW2 medals only if they got permission of the president, otherwise its illegal (on the other head SS f*ckers can wear their iron crosses for all they care), aside all that sh!t, in Russia you'll find yourself in prison if you are involved in any fascist activity.

Damn, then why isn't Putin and all his cronies in jail? He is sure starting to act like one.

	07-05-2005 00:03									#51
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quote: Originally posted by Serb I'm not in the mood for a showdown. I'm tired of your stinking sandbox and I'm leaving forever. Fare f*cking well.

So you lose and run away crying... how Russian of you .

	07-05-2005 00:06									#52
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quote: Originally posted by Serb ...where they name they kindergardens after the commanders of SS divisions, where they build monuments to SS soldiers, where soldiers who fought vs. nazism in WW2 can wear their WW2 medals only if they got permission of the president, otherwise its illegal (on the other head SS f*ckers can wear their iron crosses for all they care...

This interests me. I'll allow you the opportunity to provide a credible link before I write this off as the ravings of a lunatic...

	07-05-2005 00:07									#53
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"In the name of the communal fraternization of brothers, I'm taking my balls and going home!"

	07-05-2005 00:07									#54
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You are being generous today, Wezil... as soon as he posts, I know it's the ravings of a lunatic

	07-05-2005 00:27									#55
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui You are being generous today, Wezil... as soon as he posts, I know it's the ravings of a lunatic

I am wary. This is the same individual that tried to imply Canadian kids grow up dreaming of playing big league hockey in Russia.

	07-05-2005 00:28									#56
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It was a bit of confusion on the part of brother comrads of Red Army. They were to take the LEFT to go Poland but the great general had a bit too much of our wonderful Russian vodka to celebrate birthday of beloved leader Stalin and he go right. It was good to happen when the people of baltic are so happy and invite us staying.

This is story that we are sticking to it.

	07-05-2005 01:49									#57
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quote: Originally posted by Wezil This interests me. I'll allow you the opportunity to provide a credible link before I write this off as the ravings of a lunatic...

Me too, although I suspect that Serb is referring to any anti-Soviet patriot as a NAZI. He really underestimate the level of hatred of the USSR there was in Europe at the time.

	07-05-2005 01:59									#58
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the economist has an article suggesting that one of the dominant supporters of stalin and communism in russia to this day are the uneducated youth.

	07-05-2005 02:08									#59
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quote: Originally posted by DanS It's amazing to me that Bush can continue to make geopolitical hay for the US on a pact that was killed 60 years ago.

Bush may be dumb, but the Russians are dumber.

	07-05-2005 02:55									#60
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VetLegion, yes I was owned. OK!

Ned, that's actually a pretty good observation, however not precisely correct, at least yet. But if we compare baltic states and russia right now, it's not the baltic states that are more fascist.

Let's look at what the signs of fascism are:

exalts nation and sometimes race above the individual
uses violence and modern techniques of propaganda and censorship to forcibly suppress political opposition
engages in severe economic and social regimentation
engages in corporatism
implements totalitarianism

None of the countries are fascist, but baltic states are not either. And they are also not even close to nazis or national socialism, because the definition is (for nazism):

National Socialist Program
Racism: Especially anti-Semitism, which eventually culminated in the Holocaust.
The creation of a Herrenrasse (Master Race = by the Lebensborn (Fountain of Life; A department in the Third Reich)
Anti-Slavism
Belief in the superiority of the White, Germanic, Aryan or Nordic races.
Euthanasia and Eugenics with respect to "Racial Hygiene"
Anti-Marxism, Anti-Communism, Anti-Bolshevism
The rejection of democracy, with as a consequence the ending the existence of political parties, labour unions, and free press.
Führerprinzip (Leader Principle) Belief in the leader (Responsibility up the ranks, and authority down the ranks.)
Strong show of local culture.
Social Darwinism
Defense of Blood and Soil (German: "Blut und Boden" - represented by the red and black colors in the Nazi flag)
"Lebensraumpolitik", "Lebensraum im Osten" (The creation of more living space for Germans in the east)
... and finally it is closely related to fascism.

So no, neither of those claims are true, unless we are provided good evidence that these signs are fulfilled by our baltic friends.