12-05-2005 16:08									#31
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quote: Originally posted by trev Unlike USA there are also no deductions from our wages such as a social security tax, all superannuation payments are made directly by employers at a rate of 9% of wages excluding overtime payments, so for a reasonable comparison your social security tax should be added to your tax rate.

Er, not exactly. You have to pay at least 5% of your wages into a superannuation account. Any money you owe to the government (ie, HECS, income support over-payments, etc) is also deducted from your wages before you see it.

	12-05-2005 18:05									#32
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Not to mention the medicare levy.

	12-05-2005 18:28									#33
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quote: Originally posted by Oerdin Nice rhyme, but, the problem is Howard balanced the Australian budget instead of running up massive deficits. That is the major accomplishment and it is highly unReagan of him.

The other half of Reaganomics, cuts in government spending, was soundly rejected by the other party. Any objective study of the budget wars of 1981-83 shows this, Oerdin.

Didja ever hear the phrase "Dead in the water?" It was the common refrain of Tip O'Neill in 1981, and he did his damndest to make sure that was the case.

Not that the Reagan administration wasn't to blame for not sticking to their guns. It's been a few years since I read this, but you might want to check out David Stockmans memoirs of that period, showing the frustration he had with the administration not fighting the Democrats as hard as he thought they should have. He was totally aware that the compromised forged between the Congressional Democrats and the Reagan Administration would result in massive budget deficits, but people on both sides of the aisle ignored him, causing him to resign in frustration in... 1983, IIRC.

	12-05-2005 18:31									#34
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quote: Originally posted by JohnT Oh, I know. But still, the idea of a Communist wanting to move to a country that's lowering their marginal tax rates is just too rich.

Actually, my thinking was moving to a country that's doing so well economically that they can cut their tax rates without going in to a deficit. That means lots of jobs.

	12-05-2005 18:37									#35
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Medicare levy is 1.5% of your taxable income, an additional 1% if you earn over (I think) $80,000 and don't have private health insurance.

HECS doesn't start coming out until you are earning at least $30,000 so does not even come close to affecting me. Of course, the first bracket is a whopping 4% of your income, so payments becomes significant from that point on.

The top tax brackets from 1 July 2006 are 70,000 and 125,000. Interestingly, tax revenue as a portion of the GDP is projected to rise slightly compared to previous years, even after the tax cuts take effect.

	12-05-2005 18:40									#36
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These rule-changes are fun, just like the rule changes in forum games. Only instead of giving us advantages in a game, they just give us more money.

	12-05-2005 18:43									#37
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quote: but then America's tax rates would be much higher too if they ran a budget surplus of 1% of GDP

As a matter of mathematics, you are correct. As a normative matter, a surplus of 1% of GDP is worse than a deficit of 1% of GDP inasmuch as it leads to higher spending as a percentage of the economy. The spending is the most important thing to control.

	12-05-2005 19:07									#38
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quote: Originally posted by JohnT The other half of Reaganomics, cuts in government spending, was soundly rejected by the other party. Any objective study of the budget wars of 1981-83 shows this, Oerdin.

Cuts in spending?!

Sorry, but that is pure fantasy! Reagan NEVER ONCE submited a balanced budget nor cut spending over all. Everyone of his budgets was bigger then the last one even after he cut taxes on the rich. Howard hasn't cut spending either but instead took the Clinton approach of holding new spending to the rate of inflation.

Howard is nothing like Reagan because 1) he's balanced the budget and 2) He's controlled spending. Reagan couldn't do either much less cut spending.

	12-05-2005 19:23									#39
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quote: Originally posted by Oerdin Cuts in spending?! Sorry, but that is pure fantasy! Reagan NEVER ONCE submited a balanced budget nor cut spending over all.

That is not at all true, Oerdin. The fact is that he tried to cut government spending, but didn't get it done because of Democratic opposition. Again, read Stockman's memoirs, or if you can't believe a Republican because he's a Republican ( ) then read Tip O'Neills biography, especially the passages where he crows how he blocked Reagans "draconian" cuts in governmental spending back in '81.

"Fantasy" is assuming that people did what you want them to do as so to match the mental image you have of them.

	12-05-2005 19:27									#40
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He may have tried to cut spending, but he never tried to cut the deficit over all. The masive increase in arms spending more than outweighed his attempts to cut social spending.

	12-05-2005 19:30									#41
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Come on guys. This is a thread about Australia.

	12-05-2005 19:33									#42
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dp

	12-05-2005 19:33									#43
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Here's a link to the Stockman book. Trust me guys, there's enough blame on both sides of the aisle on the deficit issue.

	12-05-2005 19:36									#44
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Why would you guys argue about that anyway the budget was eventually balanced with no real problems? The following recession was caused by a credit crunch.

	12-05-2005 19:40									#45
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quote: Originally posted by JohnT Here's a link to the Stockman book. Trust me guys, there's enough blame on both sides of the aisle on the deficit issue.

Did he write that while he was in prison?

	12-05-2005 19:42									#46
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quote: Originally posted by DanS Come on guys. This is a thread about Australia.

Seems to be about govt budgets too.

	12-05-2005 19:44									#47
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quote: Originally posted by JohnT That is not at all true, Oerdin. The fact is that he tried to cut government spending, but didn't get it done because of Democratic opposition.

Not true. The truth, according to the CATO institute, is that Reagan cut spending on the non defense budget by 13.5% so he got the cuts he wanted, but, the problem is Reagan spent like a crack addict on his pet projects like defense. Over all he averaged a 7% increase in spending each year and the final approved budget averaged just 2.8% higher then Reagan's original requests. Much of that extra 2.8% was from supplimental bills which Reagan himself requested.

Republicans have constructed two big myths when it comes to Reagan. One that Reagan ever actually decreased spending and two that evil Democrats were to blam for Reagans mountains of debt. Reagan increased spending at a large rate and got almost entirely what he asked for in the budget including massive tax cuts for the wealthy. But of course some how Democrats are to blame for Reagan's poor policies.

	12-05-2005 19:46									#48
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Isn't there already a thread about Reagan? Why don't y'all continue your discussion there?

	12-05-2005 19:46									#49
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Okay, now back to Oz!

I wanna live in Sydney! Maybe Queensland. It's a toss between a real city and warm oceans. Not a big fan of sharing my ocean with great whites.

	12-05-2005 19:52									#50
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As stupid as Reagan was about economics the increased spending and the tax cuts helped the economy considerably. So who cares?

	12-05-2005 19:59									#51
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Incrasing spending while cutting taxes and running up debt is bad policy that's why people should care. We got luck and the high tech boom provided unpresidented economic growth. Even so it still took 12 years of sound government policy (by Bush Sr and Clinton) to undo the financial damage Reagan did to the nation's finances. Bush wiped out 12 years of good policy in just 4 years of out of control spending and reckless give aways to the richest of the rich.

Thus when people say Howard is like Reagan I must take exception because Howard is more of a Blair or Clinton type leader who cut taxs responsibly, balances budgets, and controls spending. Reagan was the opposite of that.

	12-05-2005 20:04									#52
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Again, we don't know that Howard controlled spending. You're just assuming that. Also, when times were flush (2000 for the 2001 fiscal year), Clinton and the GOP congress were big, big spenders. That was a problem, which I wonder whether Australia is avoiding.

	12-05-2005 20:09									#53
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Maybe instead of cutting taxes, Oz should be stockpiling money for the inevitable decline.

	12-05-2005 20:09									#54
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I think Che just doesn't want to live in a republic anymore. He is becoming a monarchist, and so wants to go live under the just reign of Her Majesty The Queen.

	12-05-2005 20:11									#55
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara Maybe instead of cutting taxes, Oz should be stockpiling money for the inevitable decline.

More would be done to hold off any decline and make Australia better off in the long run by putting the money back into the economy where it can be invested/spent on Australian goods.

	12-05-2005 20:25									#56
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara Maybe instead of cutting taxes, Oz should be stockpiling money for the inevitable decline.

Sitting an a cash hoard like that might make them targets for a takeover.

	12-05-2005 20:28									#57
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quote: Originally posted by Shi Huangdi More would be done to hold off any decline

Declines can't be avoided indefinately. Sooner or later, the system stumbles. If you save for the lean times, they aren't so lean.

	12-05-2005 20:57									#58
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Money that the government sits on doesn't do anything. Money that is invested grows the economy, and widens the tax base over the long run.

	12-05-2005 20:57									#59
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Yes, but it won't be available when the decline comes.

Last edited by chegitz guevara on 12-05-2005 at 23:13

	12-05-2005 21:03									#60
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a decline from a larger base still ends up with a larger number than a decline from a smaller base that is cushioned with a reserve