 |
| |
|
|
lord of the mark
|
 |
FUKCOV - Former United Kingdom Colony of Virginia
Dec 2000
time: 00:19
|
|
[QUOTE] Originally posted by Spiffor
quote:
I was under the impression that they were making leaps and bounds? I thought that a great many people converted to "born-again" Christianty*? That the fundies were being very successful at making the US question biological progress (evolution, stem cells) and question quite a chunk oif the social progress that occured in the recent decades (abortion, gay recognition)? |
while their churches have grown relative to mainstream Protestant churches, i doubt they have grown by leaps and bounds. They were simply less visible 50 years ago, as they culture was not so much at odds with theirs, and they tended to vote their economic or racial interests.
Stem cell research is something bothers at least a few people who are not fundies. In any case its not the heart of biological progress (id say the human genome project is much more important) but its the way in our system that groups that feel intensely can exercise disproportionate influence on a minor issue.
And outside of Kansas, i see no success by them on evolution - and even they all they are doing is trying to get some stupid stickers put on textbooks.
Abortion has been a matter of dispute in this country for decades. Theres never been a society wide consensus in support of it. Nonetheless the antiabortion folks are still in the counter culture on this. Even if Roe v Wade were overturned and states got to make their own laws on it, probably two thirds or more would allow abortion. And as of today, abortion, even to the end of the second trimester, is legal in EVERY state. Folks who see it as murder feel VERY imposed upon.
Gay recognition has been increasing in recent years. Prior to the late '90s not a single state recognized gay marriage in any form. Now several recognize gay unions. 30 years ago fundies were opposed to laws for equal employment rights for gays. Now theyre trying to stop gay marriage. A retreat.
And theres more to society than laws. Gays are recognized positively in our media in ways unheard of even 15 years ago. Sex, attacks on authority, etc pervade the media. I can tell you, you dont see many "christian" tv shows in the US unless you get a christian network on cable.
There may be a difference in perspective here - US media still have a vague deference to "civil religion", an overall red, white and blue monotheism that seems outlandishly religious to Europeans (God bless America and all that) thats not particularly affiliated with Fundamentalism, and doesnt mean they dont feel themselves a counter culture.
quote:
*Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I consider that nearly all "Born Again" Christians are stereotypical converts, who'll shove their new beliefs down everybody's throat, and have no tolerance for other belief systems. A Mr Nice Guy if you prefer. I was under the impression that more reasonable converts weren't called "born again". |
Technically "born again" is a basic concept in all Calvinist groups, IIUC. It refers to the notion that for salvation a person must find grace individually, being reborn in christ - it gets to calvinist views of salvation. Jimmy Carter was called a "born again" and he was certainly tolerant of other religions.
POTM has a friend who goes to a Baptist church. Shes a sweet girl, and has joined us for Shabbat dinner on several occasions. Her parents are most respectful of us - my impression is theyre happy theyre child has found a friend whos family is RELIGIOUS, and who doesnt dress sluttishly, like so many of the youngsters do these days.
Now if we started lecturing to them on abortion or gay marriage, they might not be so happy. But we dont, as we dont want to be lectured to (hey, isnt that the golden rule?)
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Boris Godunov
|
 |
Portland, OR
Aug 2001
time: 00:19
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by lord of the mark
a few international human rights groups like Medecins San Frontieres (are they now to be considered "leftists"? - Im sure some loony righties think so) were - I cant recall anyone else of any prominence, left, right, or center, calling for action wrt to the Taliban. Other than the Northern Alliance types themselves. |
Um, how about NOW and Amnesty International?
quote:
The focus on the evolution battle is a matter of importance to NON-Parents - its not about education, its a symbolic kultur-kampf on both sides, that is distracting from real issues.
|
The leaders of Kansas Citizens for Science are all parents of Kansas school children and would heartily disagree that it's not a real issue. It's not isolated from other things you mentioned (and nobody claimed it was more important), but it's something that must be addressed. If you would look up the "Wedge Document" by Dembski et al., you'll see that this is just part of "wedging" their foot in the door for religious doctrine. Their goal is also to drive a wedge between laypeople and science as much as possible by setting up this false dichotomy that science and religion are not compatible.
I strongly urge you to check out www.pandasthumb.org and explore the issues behind this, because dismissing as being so minor is the first mistake the fundies want to be made.
By the way, was it mentioned that the sticker in the OP was a joke? You really have no sense of humor, do you?
quote:
Calling your political opponents, of right or left, Taliban or equivalent is just McCarthyism. |
And when did I ever do this?
|
|
| |
|
| |
All times are GMT. The time now is 05:19.
Apolyton Time is 00:19. |
top of page
|
|
|
Forum Rules:
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
|
HTML code is ON
vB code is ON
Smilies are ON
[IMG] code is ON
|
|
|
|
|
|
12-05-2005 21:00
|