15-05-2005 08:56									#31
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quote: Originally posted by Ben Kenobi Interesting.

I can't be certain, but I take it that the gist of these encounters portrayed in the program generally had the theme of religious intolerance. Please also note the repeated referrences to blatant anti-semitism at the academy. Seriously Ben, how often have you been subjected to harrassment by the big bad Jews? If a Christian were harrassing a non-Christian about the latter's different belief system what would a "win" by the Christian look like in a program specifically designed to educate people about religious intolerance? IMHO a "win" for the Christian in such a situation would be the Christian's realization that his own cruelty and hate were in direct contradiction to Christ's teaching and that he ought to give himself a big time out and wash his spiritual mouth out with a little spiritual soap.

	15-05-2005 19:27									#32
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amen, Strangelove

	15-05-2005 19:30									#33
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Christians win by saving as many souls as they can. The one who saves the most souls goes on to the boss level to fight Satan. If he or she survives, they win the game by sitting at the right hand of Christ for all eternity.

Meanwhile, over in Muslim heaven, the winners are kicking it with 72 virgins.

	15-05-2005 20:06									#34
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if you thought that someone would be lost, wouldn't you do your best to save them?

I mean, that is part of just being a decent person....

Jon Miller
(not saying that all evangelicals are like that, but many are)

	15-05-2005 20:15									#35
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quote: Originally posted by Jon Miller if you thought that someone would be lost, wouldn't you do your best to save them?

Let's apply it to the non-spiritual world. A secular example of a "lost" person could be a hardcore druggie that is destroying his life and losing all self-respect.

Of course, I'd like to "save" the person, by offering the help I can (whether by being a listening ear, offering advice, or financial help if warranted). However, if the "lost" makes it clear that I'm not the first nor the last good samaritan trying to help, and that he doesn't want the pity or the help of others, then I would respect his wishes. A zealot would continue, his self-righteousness blinding him from the fact that the "lost" rejects him.

Between the zealot and I, I think I'm the decent person.

	15-05-2005 20:21									#36
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not all evangelicals push themselves on others

all it means to be an evangelical is to offer help

how the evangelical reacts to not being heard is another issue

there is actually biblical support for backing off

as Jesus told the deciples (paraphrasing here): if they don't hear you, than shake the dust of your feet and go to the next town

Jon Miller
(you are completely prejudiced versus zealots.... when yuo think of it (as I argued in my fanaticism thread) fanatics/zealots/enthuisasts are often great people (See Gandhi))

	15-05-2005 20:26									#37
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quote: Originally posted by Jon Miller you are completely prejudiced versus zealots

Yes. I hate being shoved beliefs down my throat*

*this statement doesn't apply to all believers. Actually, most believers I know respect my wish of not being permanently bothered by their message.

	15-05-2005 20:28									#38
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there is a difference between 'shoving your beleifs down someones throat' and trying to convince them your way

surely as a communist you can see the parallels between the idea of communism and the idea of christianity

those who have no ideas, are in one way worthless..

Jon Miller

	15-05-2005 20:30									#39
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the shoving of beleifs downt he throat is one way that people who don't know how to convince others try to do so

there heart my be in the right place (for some of them) but there are actions aren't...

now assuredly there are also some who do it just out of guilt... and aren't really trying to convince others of their view points

Jon miller

	15-05-2005 20:33									#40
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quote: Originally posted by Jon Miller there is a difference between 'shoving your beleifs down someones throat' and trying to convince them your way

And the people I call "zealots" do the former.

I'm a political activist, and I regularly attempt to convince people my way. However, I don't think I ever insist when I see that somebody is obviously bothered by the prospect of listening to my opinions.

quote: those who have no ideas, are in one way worthless..

I try to convince those who have no ideas (or those who have ideas, but remain open to other ones), but I don't think they are worthless. If they think they're better people by having no ideas than by having some, then I respect their point of view, and I stop trying to convince them.

	15-05-2005 20:40									#41
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being against an christianity, or communism, or whatever is an idea

it is those who have no ideas who I find uninteresting...

having a firm position on some things (like communism) and not in others (like religion) is still interesting...

you call people zealots that do the former, but than think that all evangelicals are zealots, when many (most?) are like yourself..

Jon Miller

	15-05-2005 20:53									#42
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quote: Originally posted by Jon Miller you call people zealots that do the former, but than think that all evangelicals are zealots, when many (most?) are like yourself..

Err, no

quote: Originally posted by Spiffor Actually, most believers I know respect my wish of not being permanently bothered by their message.

	15-05-2005 20:56									#43
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ah.. I might have gotten you confused with someone else

in whiuch case I appologise

JM

	15-05-2005 21:05									#44
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I think you were right to target me, because I don't remember having ever clarified my position on ordinary believers. I tend to jump the gun against zealots, but without mentioning that I don't equate religious belief with zealotry.

	15-05-2005 21:08									#45
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Religious zealots

Pizza zelaots