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Lancer
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Oregon Coast, USA! or Bohol, Philippines!
Apr 1999
time: 05:20
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"The Labor Party USA has a plan to creative a universal payer system that will not only save America money, but put everyone on universal healthcare and provide job training for those in the insurance industry who lose their jobs for up to four years."
Che, I worry that the left will screw it up majesticly. Remember Hillary Clinton and the mess she and her blonde cronies came up with. The problem becomes that they don't want to piss anyone off or cost anyone their jobs so they just make it worse, and more expensive. Politicos on the right will never do anything about it or have a clue what it is to be without coverage. When the problem gets bad enough, and maybe it is already, a third party might be able to gain acceptance by running on this issue.
If a person has to fly thousands of miles to be able to afford to get their teeth done, there's an opening for a political platform.
Not only that, but if the medical community sees their customers flying off to sunnier spots, they might just get behind massive reform, if they aren't already.
"I don't think you'll be harmed if you go to India"
Trajanus, people in the US see alot of bad press about the rest of the world, the third world particularly. So many people are just afraid to venture out into the real world because of this. What they don't know is that in places like the Philippines, it's actually safer to walk the streets and wander around than in the US. The exception being that Manila is likely just as bad as New York and LA.
Always wanted to see India...
Belgian system sounds great. 
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Lancer
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Oregon Coast, USA! or Bohol, Philippines!
Apr 1999
time: 05:20
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Huh. So how will an insurance company make $ if the whole thing is government :gulp: run?
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chegitz guevara
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Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
time: 00:20
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quote:
Originally posted by Lancer
Remember Hillary Clinton and the mess she and her blonde cronies came up with. |
That's because, rather than come up with a truely progressive policy on universal, single-payer health care, they came up with a chimera of greatly expanded health care run through the insurance companies. Instead of giving people what they wanted, they tried to compromise with everyone and keep it in the private sector. The Clintons were either too timid to push for real health care or they were in the back pocket of the insurance companies or, more likely, both. On top of this, it was insanely complicated.
The LPUSA program is vastly simpler. Health-insurance for all, run by the Feds, paid for by a 5% tax on businesses (for those businesses already paying for insurance, this will be a significant drop in costs), with a program to retrain insurance workers who lose their jobs, and which also allows people to pick their doctors.
With a 50% cut in costs due to the massive diminution of overhead, the whole country will save money. Businesses, for the most part, should love this, as it will mean a rather substantial increase in the amount of capital they have available for investment.
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BlackCat
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quote:
Originally posted by Starchild
They manage to make enough money in the UK where if I had to have your surgery, it wouldn't have cost me a penny. |
The same goes for the scandinavian countries - even evil foreigners on visit get free emergency treatment.
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VetLegion
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Emergency treatment being driving you to hospital. You pay for everything else.
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BlackCat
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quote:
Originally posted by VetLegion
Emergency treatment being driving you to hospital. You pay for everything else. |
Nope, not here - well you may have to pay for the magzines making your stay at the hospital tolerable, but not the surgical/medical treatment.
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Lancer
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Oregon Coast, USA! or Bohol, Philippines!
Apr 1999
time: 05:20
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Starchild, does the UK system actually work? I've heard horror stories of people in Canada having to wait so long for 'free' medical treatment that they become medical tourists just because they are sick of being sick. So, the UK isn't like that?
"Yes, but not all nations can be as rich as the UK.
Maybe when the US economcy improves..."
 Yeah right CT. The interesting thing about the 'commonwealth' is that wealth is so uncommon. 
"That's because, rather than come up with a truely progressive policy on universal, single-payer health care, they came up with a chimera of greatly expanded health care run through the insurance companies. Instead of giving people what they wanted, they tried to compromise with everyone and keep it in the private sector. The Clintons were either too timid to push for real health care or they were in the back pocket of the insurance companies or, more likely, both. On top of this, it was insanely complicated.
The LPUSA program is vastly simpler. Health-insurance for all, run by the Feds, paid for by a 5% tax on businesses (for those businesses already paying for insurance, this will be a significant drop in costs), with a program to retrain insurance workers who lose their jobs, and which also allows people to pick their doctors.
With a 50% cut in costs due to the massive diminution of overhead, the whole country will save money. Businesses, for the most part, should love this, as it will mean a rather substantial increase in the amount of capital they have available for investment."
Che, to retrain all those workers you would have to cut regulations on business making it more profitable to hire in the country than out, but your health care system sounds good. Also, when Billy Clinton 'retrained' all the loggers he put out of work by making so much national forest illegal to harvest, he increased the slots in government to employ them. So, the contractors had to pay higher licence fees, and the government used the $ to hire more OSHA *******s, who went around harrassing the contractors during their work. I got a $500 fine for working on a roof 10' 4" off the ground without a harness, 4" higher than the legal limit. They would park across the street from where you were working and secretly take pictures and then swoop down in bunches to bust you, like you're cooking crack or something.  The government really has to get off the backs of business if they are going to be expected to hire all these unemployed insurance people.
"There's still auto, home, renter, flood, hurricane, malpractice, etc."
Che, That's a good point.  Glad I could have my rant before I saw it.
"You hear about people going to Brazil or Thailand to get cheap plastic surgury and having their face totally screwed up."
Oerdin, they discuss that in the article in my second link. I don't really like their answer too much though. One of the things that make it so cheap is that you can't sue. If that makes an operation affordable where it wasn't before...well you roll the dice or you don't. I'll never get such a treatment unless I'm in an accident or something like that, but I'd have had my apendix out there if I had the option.
"I have no pity..."
We knew that Kuci, lets not beat a dead dog.
Man, I just realized what a sick saying that is.
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Lancer
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Oregon Coast, USA! or Bohol, Philippines!
Apr 1999
time: 05:20
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bump blah
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Lancer
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Oregon Coast, USA! or Bohol, Philippines!
Apr 1999
time: 05:20
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So income taxes would pay for health care? We need to dump the wasteful insurance companies. Then again, government isn't much better. Oregon really fights claims they're supposed to be paying...no $.
In europe can citizens sue the doctors? Aren't they government employees? Can't sue the government, right?
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Zkribbler
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Los Angeles, CA, USA
Feb 1999
time: 21:20
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quote:
Originally posted by Lancer
So income taxes would pay for health care?
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Not 'zackly. Employers which now pay health insurance benefits would redirect most (about 84%) of that money to the government...since this 84% is a legally mandated collection of money by the government, it's a tax.  [However, if you were the employer, which would you rather pay: 100% to the insurance co or 84% to the govt?]
Employers who don't currently provide healthcare would have to pay into the plan. Similarly, self-employed would have to pay a portion of their income for healthcare. Improvished people can get a waiver. Monies from the federal government for healthcare (medical) would also be directed into this plan.
--Except for the bit about the self-employed, individuals would have to pay no more in taxes.
quote:
We need to dump the wasteful insurance companies.
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You said it! $8 billion saved the first year; $343 billion saved over 10 years. Pretty soon, you're talking real money. 
quote:
Can't sue the government, right? |
You can. But there has to be a specific constitutional or statutory provision allowing the particular kind of suit.
The first example that pops to mind is premises liablity. If, through inattentiveness, you allow a dangerous condition to occur on your land in California, and it injures someone, you're liable. However, you may sue the government of California for dangerous conditions on its land only if it caused the dangerous condiction or if it actually knew about it but did nothing. None of this negligent failure to inspect stuff.
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15-05-2005 18:34
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