19-05-2005 01:08									#31
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quote: But I think such stuff isn't important, if all of the classes that are offered are rigorous.

Yeah. They should make them do classics. The British built an Empire with guys educated that way.

	19-05-2005 01:21									#32
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While I have a lot of respect for people who do classics studies, it's not that helpful in the context of the American school system.

	19-05-2005 01:24									#33
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Why so, DanS?

	19-05-2005 01:25									#34
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quote: While I have a lot of respect for people who do classics studies, it's not that helpful in the context of the American school system.

It's hardass. If you can do it the old fashioned way, everything else will be easier. Besides, you can learn a lot more about human life from the classics than from some daft social studies book.

	19-05-2005 01:28									#35
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I am actually sort of with Agathon on this one.

I think that studying philosophy and all that other rubbish at a relatively young age is sort of important. Another important thing is to bring in a culture of learning, and break the culture of ignorance. the former will assist in the later.

	19-05-2005 01:30									#36
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From my own experience (which, I admit, could mean nothing), class sizes matter to a certain degree. On one hand, if there are less peope there, you often get too much attention to slack off, and end up doing well (or better than you would have) in spite of yourself. Also, you're both expected to contribute more, and have a chance to contribute more, and discussions are much more managable. While I agree that better teachers are more important that class size (it doesn't matter the size of the class if the teacher sucks), I have trouble believing that class size has no effect.

	19-05-2005 01:39									#37
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quote: Originally posted by DanS I know you think this and that it is conventional wisdom. But I think such stuff isn't important, if all of the classes that are offered are rigorous.

You'll pry my electives from my cold, dead fingers

	19-05-2005 01:40									#38
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btw, why is it that smaller class sizes = smaller school?

	19-05-2005 01:42									#39
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I think the truth is somewhere in the middle. I have no doubt that smaller classes benefit certain students, likely those that are stradling the fence and need a little extra attention. I have my doubts about the benefits to both the really good students and the really poor students. Which makes me think that smaller classes have a positive effect on an individual class level, but I'm not sure how this is offset by aggregate costs.

	19-05-2005 01:42									#40
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quote: Originally posted by Kuciwalker You'll pry my electives from my cold, dead fingers

Hey, you might like them. But strictly speaking, they are not necessary or indeed maybe not even helpful for preparing you for college.

	19-05-2005 01:44									#41
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Nothing beats one on one tutorials from Debra LeFave.

	19-05-2005 01:45									#42
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Like hell they aren't. You don't think being able to take advanced math, or study biotechnology, or learn more than an "Intro to CS" helps prepare for college?

EDIT: *especially* the math

	19-05-2005 01:46									#43
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Aggie , I think that you're pwned on this one . My own experience suggests that smaller classes are waaaaay better than larger ones . They were for my grades . Last year , there was a class of thirty , and my grades were not what I wanted them to be ( less than 70 % ) , and now that the class size has effectively been reduced to 15 , my learning has improved , and my grades are better ( I get 75 % + regularly now , even on much tougher tests ) .


So I conclude that yes , size does matter - and in this case , the smaller the better .

	19-05-2005 01:51									#44
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Yet there is no unanimity on the subject. I remain sceptical.

Kuci needs some LeFave tutoring.

	19-05-2005 01:52									#45
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quote: Originally posted by OzzyKP He says schools are obsolete, but then he doesn't propose any groundbreaking, meaningful change. Its all hot air. Much deeper change needs to happen to reform education in this country.

	19-05-2005 01:55									#46
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quote: Originally posted by Agathon I just read that Freakonomics book. I trust that guy more than any cretin you're likely to have read.

Let me see if I have this down right.

Agathon, who trashes economists at every opportunity, is basing his argument on the writings of Steven Levitt...

1994 John Bates Clark Award Winner....

(best american economist under age 40)....

(AKA next stop Nobel Prize)....

the youngest full professor of economics at ....

that bastion of rabid conservatism....

the seminary of economic self interest.....

the ultimate source of all capitalist evil....

drum roll please....



The University of Chicago.


Oh, the irony!

	19-05-2005 01:57									#47
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quote: Agathon, who trashes economists at every opportunity, is basing his argument on the writings of Steven Levitt...

I enjoyed his book. I don''t necessarily agree with everything in it, but it was an interesting read nonetheless.

I don't mind if economists want to investigate crack gangs – it's the repug apologists who should be hanging from lamp posts.

	19-05-2005 02:02									#48
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Raise taxes, spend more on education. And stop branding teachers failures. Simple.

	19-05-2005 02:11									#49
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most teachers where I went to highschool did suck

Jon Miller

	19-05-2005 02:12									#50
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quote: Originally posted by Adam Smith Let me see if I have this down right. Agathon, who trashes economists at every opportunity, is basing his argument on the writings of Steven Levitt... 1994 John Bates Clark Award Winner.... (best american economist under age 40).... (AKA next stop Nobel Prize).... the youngest full professor of economics at .... that bastion of rabid conservatism.... the seminary of economic self interest..... the ultimate source of all capitalist evil.... drum roll please.... The University of Chicago. Oh, the irony!

I would like to hear what thoughts you have on this topic, if you have formed them.