23-05-2005 14:11									#61
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	23-05-2005 14:13									#62
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quote: Originally posted by Sparrowhawk Unwritten rules are fine if everyone follows them (or at least all of the "regular" players).

Who's a regular player? Many people browse in and out of this thread, without reading all the stuff that they've missed. Moreover, having unwritten rules makes it seem like some cliche club, and stop others joining. Which means as people drop out, we end up with fewer and fewer participants.

I prefer just being honest, writing the rules down and playing the game. Unwritten rules are find as long as nobody has a go at someone when they break it, but then what's the point in that?

	23-05-2005 14:25									#63
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	23-05-2005 15:20									#64
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	23-05-2005 16:17									#65
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There are no unwritten rules.

	23-05-2005 21:04									#66
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Unwritten rules

	23-05-2005 21:07									#67
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and this is the 20th thread of fun and entertainment for all ages

	23-05-2005 23:20									#68
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quote: Originally posted by joncha I agree with Spike.

And in fact the reason I thought the rule had changed (Ljube is correct that we took all words guesses initially) is because that is how you've applied it when setting in recent games, IMO quite righty so.

	23-05-2005 23:27									#69
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quote: Originally posted by Drogue I believe that it's *far* to confusing to try to argue unwritten rules, as we seem to be getting a lot of them. Let's write the rules down, and then play by them. Pulling someone up for breaking a rule that isn't written in the rules is confusing and hardly helps others get involved in the game.

I agree completely, and I always make the point that you can't blame new players for breaking unwritten rules.

However, although it sounds very easy to just have all the rules explicitly written even with a simple game as Hangman there are lots of wrinkles in the FG implementation that no one is going to figure out and specify beforehand. I (and others) do try to keep the rules up to date with practice, but inevitably things slip through.

There is also the point that with explicit rules you have to be incredibly explicit, as there are those that get off on trying to exploit loopholes (regardless of what game practice is) and then hiding behind the rules. This of course doesn't mean you shouldn't have them, but it does mean that updating and maintaining the rules as the game evolves is a trickier job than you would imagine.

	23-05-2005 23:30									#70
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I thought we had agreed to change it...

	23-05-2005 23:35									#71
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Me too.

Since we are the main people that update stuff shall we just change it and not tell anyone? A written 'unwritten' rule.

	24-05-2005 00:36									#72
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quote: Originally posted by Ljube-ljcvetko No need to change rules.

I took this post to mean that we didn't need to update the rules, I believe there is a need.

And Drogue, point taken, unwritten rules are harmful to the game, but as DrSpike points out and Ljube has stated in the past, it is impossible to account for every contingency in the ruleset.

* Sparrowhawk

	24-05-2005 00:37									#73
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So, is it allowed to spam here inbetween updates?

	24-05-2005 00:38									#74
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No. Please stop.

	24-05-2005 00:46									#75
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If anyone wants to change the rules in some respect, they should post their proposal here. A vote should follow to determine whether we accept the change or not. If the change is accepted, rules should be updated.


I don't think any change is needed because the current rules seem coherent and complete. Consecutive word guesses are not a problem in my opinion.

	24-05-2005 01:29									#76
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Existing rule 2 and 3.

2. Updates must be posted within 24 hours of each other, and will occur in sets of 2, except for the final 2 guesses, which will be updated individually. An update must also occur after each word guess.

3. Any letters guessed after the conditions for an update set out in rule 2 have been met, but before the actual update, will be ignored, and will not carry over to the next set of guesses.

Proposal: Rule 3 should be:

3. Any letters or words guessed after the conditions for an update set out in rule 2 have been met, but before the actual update, will be ignored, and will not carry over to the next set of guesses.

This is to bring words guesses in line with the constraint on letter guessing, to give the game some sense of order.

All in favour say "DrSpike we hail thee o' lord of Hangman"

All against say "Shut up DrSpike you stupid idiot - we don't need your stinkin' rules"

	24-05-2005 01:34									#77
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Why not just:

3. Any guesses made after the conditions for an update set out in rule 2 have been met, but before the actual update, will be ignored, and will not carry over to the next set of guesses.

	24-05-2005 01:34									#78
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Shut up DrSpike you stupid idiot - we don't need your stinkin' rules

	24-05-2005 02:03									#79
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Have you had too much to drink, civman?

Why so angry?

	24-05-2005 02:29									#80
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quote: Originally posted by joncha Why not just: 3. Any guesses made after the conditions for an update set out in rule 2 have been met, but before the actual update, will be ignored, and will not carry over to the next set of guesses.

I thought of that, but awkward people will say it's unclear whether it means both word and letter guesses. Better to be as precise as in my version if we are updating.

You didn't vote.

	24-05-2005 02:30									#81
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Incorrect guesses: AR

	24-05-2005 02:52									#82
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N

	24-05-2005 03:34									#83
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T

	24-05-2005 08:44									#84
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As I said before, I do not support preventing consecutive word guesses, as they generally only happen when there's 2 possible words left (or 3 possible, or whatever), and preventing them often will mean affecting who wins by when the update occurs.

Some of us can't play this as often as others, and that means that, say, if I noticed Drogue had a possible word here, but you had guessed (incorrectly), I couldn't guess my correct word, and meaning I end up losing because Drogue won't be up again until I'm at work tomorrow ...

I don't think that spam-word-guesses have occured much since I've been here, and I don't think preventing them is necessary. You're throwing the baby out with the bathwater, is all. If you are worried about spam-word-guesses, then just say that the GM may ignore guesses after the first at his discretion, if and only if he feels that they are spammy and not intended as legitimate word guesses. (Yes, some of you have a problem with this, but it's just your rule, with some leeway for the GM to accept word guesses, not a dangerously open ended thing.)

	24-05-2005 08:46									#85
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Furthermore, the way you worded it, it sounds as if a legitimate word guess couldn't even happen now, since 2 letters have been guessed.

Basically, the question I see here is, are you going to limit this game, realistically, to only occasional participation by those of us who only have a few hours to play a day, and almost never win thereby? Or are you going to run an open game with a reasonable chance for anyone to win who sees a word guess that's probably right?

	24-05-2005 11:47									#86
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	24-05-2005 11:49									#87
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	24-05-2005 12:03									#88
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COMPLEXITY

	24-05-2005 12:08									#89
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quote: Originally posted by snoopy369 You're throwing the baby out with the bathwater, is all. If you are worried about spam-word-guesses, then just say that the GM may ignore guesses after the first at his discretion, if and only if he feels that they are spammy and not intended as legitimate word guesses.

That is so the worst of all worlds, especially in a game where the GM has a stake in the outcome.

We either take them, or we don't. No half assed measures please.

	24-05-2005 13:55									#90
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quote: Originally posted by joncha COMPLEXITY

From 3 letters, nicely done.