21-05-2005 11:50									#31
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Speculation.

	21-05-2005 11:50									#32
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quote: Originally posted by Ted Striker I have to admit I'm impressed. Someday I hope to achieve that level of bodyfat.

I kinda recognize some of the other guys, but when I first ventured onto the Internet (back when there was only the one... ) he was one of the first non-nude models I'd seen. It was love at first sight.

Also, #22 died a little over a year ago. He OD'ed (or possibly off'ed himself) the poor kid

	21-05-2005 11:51									#33
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What did he OD on? Sleeping pills?

	21-05-2005 11:53									#34
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Edit: Ok, that wasn't fair of me. I'm sure there are plenty of pornstars that "keep their noses clean" as it were. I honestly don't remeber if he OD'd or commited suicide.

	21-05-2005 11:54									#35
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quote: Originally posted by Ted Striker Speculation.

Speculation of what?

That Galloway wanted sanctions gone, and a lot of his organization's money came from Iraq?

	21-05-2005 11:55									#36
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Even more speculation, thanks.

	21-05-2005 11:57									#37
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You mean speculation that he not only admits, but campaigns on?

Thanks.

	21-05-2005 11:57									#38
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither Why not discuss the issue, Oerdin, instead of appealing for some higher power to shut down discussions you don't like?

Uniform enforcement of the rules isn't to much to ask.

	21-05-2005 11:58									#39
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Bwahahahahahahaha.

	21-05-2005 11:58									#40
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A pox on this thread!

Attachment: pox.jpg
This has been downloaded 88 time(s).

	21-05-2005 12:00									#41
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither Bwahahahahahahaha.

Besides there are a lot of great posts in the other thread. The intial reactions everyone had to Coleman's total pwnage were gold.

	21-05-2005 12:13									#42
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither You mean speculation that he not only admits, but campaigns on?

Galloway has railed against the sanctions for years.

His company has also done business in Iraq.

You're trying to draw a link between them and him doing wrong.

Unfortunatley you've done no better than the US Senate in finding him guilty of any wrongdoing.

Until some court does, it's all, speculation.

Thanks.

	21-05-2005 12:25									#43
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I can see your point, Ted. Saddam without sanctions would have greatly improved the world. Thank you for showing me the way.

His company did business in Iraq? News to me. Last I heard it was a company that belonged to a supporter who did business in contravention of UN sanctions and who slipped a lot of cash to George. And then George didn't really give a damn where the money came from. If you have a look, you might find that that was the issue.

However, if you think ignoring the UN, and subverting the will of the international community is not such a bad thing, then you have a lot less ground to stand on in calling Bush a **** head, hmmm?

	21-05-2005 12:38									#44
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither I can see your point, Ted. Saddam without sanctions would have greatly improved the world. Thank you for showing me the way.

It certainly improved the lives of the average Iraqi.

Answer this question:

Is the life of the average Iraqi better or worse since Saddam has been removed from power?

quote: His company did business in Iraq? News to me. Last I heard it was a company that belonged to a supporter who did business in contravention of UN sanctions and who slipped a lot of cash to George. And then George didn't really give a damn where the money came from. If you have a look, you might find that that was the issue.

Prove it. I'm sure you could at least do better than Coleman did.

quote: However, if you think ignoring the UN, and subverting the will of the international community is not such a bad thing, then you have a lot less ground to stand on in calling Bush a **** head, hmmm?

Ironic since Bush:

1) Ignored the UN

and

2) Subverted the will of the international community.


You know, on top of that whole, lying to his own people to invade another nation thing.

	21-05-2005 12:40									#45
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You just got it, Ted. Congratulations.

	21-05-2005 12:44									#46
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Son, I've already HAD it.

	21-05-2005 12:50									#47
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While I feel dirty being defended by NYE, the fact remains that he not only avoided as well as he could the questions asked of him by Senator Levin, he chose to attack the United States whenever he could. Basically, his defense was "but they're worser."

Now, probably everyone here knows that I'm as liberal as they come (although, unfortunately, I haven't been as yet able to have a coherent discussion since I've often been drunk while discussing), this man is no different to me than any other profiteer.

What true Socialist would turn the other way in order to accept money possibly derived from the exploitation of the poor? What true Socialist would call someone who is a high-ranking member of a totalitarian regime with a dispicable human rights record a "dear, dear friend"?

	21-05-2005 12:53									#48
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Donald Rumsfeld?

	21-05-2005 12:55									#49
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quote: Originally posted by Ted Striker Is the life of the average Iraqi better or worse since Saddam has been removed from power?

So, you're arguing that no matter what this man did, as well as those who he defended through evasion of questions, because we heavily ****ed up the war, Galloway's actions deserve no punishment?

quote: Ironic since Bush: 1) Ignored the UN and 2) Subverted the will of the international community. You know, on top of that whole, lying to his own people to invade another nation thing.

...didn't you just pwn yourself? Basically, you're saying that since Bush and Galloway did both, that removes Galloway's guilt?

quote: Originally posted by Ted Striker Donald Rumsfeld?

You know I loathe Donald Rumsfeld, who is in my mind a war criminal.

	21-05-2005 12:55									#50
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I do think his points regarding the US were relevent.

It shows where his intentions and heart were with Saddam Hussein, as he stated several times.

It also showed the lack of credibility his persecutors had.

	21-05-2005 12:57									#51
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quote: Originally posted by The Emperor Fabulous So, you're arguing that no matter what this man did, as well as those who he defended through evasion of questions, because we heavily ****ed up the war, Galloway's actions deserve no punishment?

Nobody has proven he has done anything wrong.

quote: ...didn't you just pwn yourself? Basically, you're saying that since Bush and Galloway did both, that removes Galloway's guilt?

Nobody has proven he has done anything wrong.


Get something concrete besides his name on a piece of paper and then we'll talk.

	21-05-2005 12:58									#52
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quote: By "pwnage" I assume you mean his complete lack of answering fully any questions posed of him, and, in fact, challenging a Senator who opposed the war that he supported it, only changing to "the US senate" when he discovered the lack of facts.

What?

You guys are insane. Galloway has already forced retractions from two newspapers about this and has won a substantial libel case against the Daily Telegraph. There is absolutely no evidence that he profited personally in any way from his charities, and the documents produced as evidence that he had done so have all proved to be forgeries when examined.

What appears to have happened is that one of the contributors to Galloway's charity, in a minority of his business dealings, had been paying off Saddam. There is no evidence that Galloway knew about of this, and in truth no reason for him to really care. Why should he care if some backroom deal enables this man to give lavishly to a charity that helps ordinary Iraqis.

Did the charity misappropriate funds? No. Every last penny has been accounted for.

There is no evidence against Galloway. He is right to point that out. All you have is rumour and innuendo.

	21-05-2005 12:58									#53
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quote: Originally posted by Ted Striker I do think his points regarding the US were relevent.

How? If I were brought before the Senate to answer questions about my business taking millions from an enemy, I could defend myself by pointing out how bad the US was? That wouldn't hold muster in any court.

quote: It shows where his intentions and heart were with Saddam Hussein, as he stated several times.

And this is something positive to you?

quote: It also showed the lack of credibility his persecutors had.

You mean prosecutors? Because if you actually mean persecutors, you're making a man who profited from a program he denounced as a martyr?

	21-05-2005 12:59									#54
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quote: Originally posted by Agathon quote: By "pwnage" I assume you mean his complete lack of answering fully any questions posed of him, and, in fact, challenging a Senator who opposed the war that he supported it, only changing to "the US senate" when he discovered the lack of facts. What? You guys are insane. Galloway has already forced retractions from two newspapers about this and has won a substantial libel case against the Daily Telegraph. There is absolutely no evidence that he profited personally in any way from his charities, and the documents produced as evidence that he had done so have all proved to be forgeries when examined. What appears to have happened is that one of the contributors to Galloway's charity, in a minority of his business dealings, had been paying off Saddam. There is no evidence that Galloway knew about of this, and in truth no reason for him to really care. Why should he care if some backroom deal enables this man to give lavishly to a charity that helps ordinary Iraqis. Did the charity misappropriate funds? No. Every last penny has been accounted for. There is no evidence against Galloway. He is right to point that out. All you have is rumour and innuendo.

	21-05-2005 13:01									#55
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quote: Originally posted by The Emperor Fabulous How? If I were brought before the Senate to answer questions about my business taking millions from an enemy, I could defend myself by pointing out how bad the US was? That wouldn't hold muster in any court.

If the court is corrupt to begin with...

quote: And this is something positive to you?

He stated time and time again (did they not play that on C-SPAN?) that he opposed Saddam's regime.

quote: You mean prosecutors? Because if you actually mean persecutors, you're making a man who profited from a program he denounced as a martyr?

Nobody has proven he has done anything wrong.

	21-05-2005 13:03									#56
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quote: While I feel dirty being defended by NYE, the fact remains that he not only avoided as well as he could the questions asked of him by Senator Levin, he chose to attack the United States whenever he could. Basically, his defense was "but they're worser."

He avoided the last line of questioning because it was irrelevant. Levin asked him if he would have been troubled if he had known that his second largest donator had been paying kickbacks to Saddam Hussein.

If I collected money for charity in my neighbourhood and six months later someone told me that the largest donation was actually from a crack dealer, what am I supposed to do? There's nothing I can do about it, and in fact some good came out of it since the crack money actually ended up helping people instead of being spent on bling.

Levin was trying to make Galloway look as if he felt guilty about something that Galloway should feel no guilt over. It was a crude rhetorical trick and Galloway did not fall for it.

Only right wing loons believe that the senators didn't take a beating from Galloway. The consensus among normal people is that they were shamed. After all they had planned to expose this evil man and ended up running for cover after only 15 minutes.

That last fact is enough to prove you wrong. They ran. I'm sure Galloway would have enjoyed another hour of putting them to the sword, but there you go.

	21-05-2005 13:04									#57
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Galloway was smart not to play Coleman's game

He knows US politics and media are built on 1 second soundbites

The media would play the 1-3 seconds of him saying "yes" or "no" out of context and then ignore the rest of his case.

	21-05-2005 13:07									#58
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He could have helped his case by not evading every question asked of him. He has the absolute right (as Sen. Levin stated) to not only state his opinion on the war and the program, but also ask for the original documents, but the supposed "tongue-lashing" he gave to the committee was nothing more than a show. Just because he hated the program and he hated the war isn't a justifiable defense that he didn't profit.

Thankfully, his fund is coming under a thorough investigation again (and, apparently, his win in Parliament is being checked because there were 300 duplicate names on ballots in Bethnal Green and Bow).

Of course, he is innocent until proven guilty. But evading questions does not help his chances of NOT being proven guilty.

	21-05-2005 13:12									#59
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EF.

If I was Galloway, I probably wouldn't have done much differently. They tried to ambush him with documents that he'd never seen before. In no normal court would that be accepted procedure. You can't force someone to answer questions under those circumstances – that's ridiculous.

And stop getting at him. He won a major libel case in the British courts. It would be hard to find a court less friendly to someone like Galloway in any western country. He would have got a fairer trial in the US – British courts are notoriously craven.

Yet, he won an overwhelming victory against the Telegraph. Even I was surprised at the scale of his win.

The only reasonable conclusion is that they have nothing that will stick. Maybe he is bent, but no-one has come close to providing anything near showing that or indeed any wrongdoing by Galloway.