04-06-2005 09:07									#31
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quote: Originally posted by Ted Striker The entire nation demanded a response.

They got one. I still fail to see any reason that your assertion that depth of emotion should be able to speed up the search for a person in an area of the world easy to hide in bears any weight.

	04-06-2005 09:07									#32
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I noticed none of you Reactionaries had showed up the other day in the OTHER Guantamo thread. I guess nothing bad is going on there. They probably just located it on foreign soil for no reason at all:

quote: One of those inquiries, the findings of which are expected to be issued soon by Air Force Lieut. General Randall Schmidt, was spurred by eyewitness accounts from FBI agents at Gitmo from mid-2002 to mid-2004. According to just-released memos, agents reported seeing captives shackled in a fetal position for 24 hours without food or water and left in their own excrement, another gagged with duct tape that covered much of his head and another who had torn out his hair after being chained all night in a hot room. Former Army Sergeant Erik Saar, who served at Gitmo and wrote Inside the Wire with TIME correspondent Viveca Novak, has described an instance in which a female interrogator smeared fake menstrual blood on a captive's face. It may have been a measure of how detainees are treated that when Army Specialist Sean Baker played the role of an inmate in a 2003 training exercise, he says he was beaten so badly by MPs, who did not know he was one of them, he now has seizures. The Army is investigating the incident, and Baker has filed suit against the government, seeking damages for his injuries.

The value of holding the detainees for information:

quote: Still, earlier this year the civilian head of intelligence at Guantanamo admitted in newspaper interviews that the majority of detainees were no longer of much intelligence value and were not even being regularly interrogated.

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/a...66878-1,00.html

	04-06-2005 09:09									#33
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc They got one. I still fail to see any reason that your assertion that depth of emotion should be able to speed up the search for a person in an area of the world easy to hide in bears any weight.

It's called resources, not emotions.

All those resources bogged down in Iraq could have been used to find the guy. Instead they were wasted on a silly side war based on a lie.

	04-06-2005 09:10									#34
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Why would I discuss two year old news? Am I supposed to do it out of pity for you or something?

	04-06-2005 09:10									#35
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The news came out this week.

Thanks

	04-06-2005 09:11									#36
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I still fail to see any reason that your assertion ... bears any weight.

	04-06-2005 09:11									#37
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The part you highlighted about Sean Baker is hella old, dude. Get with the ****ing program...

	04-06-2005 09:12									#38
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So what? It's just one piece of ongoing pattern. Duh. The memos were released this week of other abuses.

Your apathy towards the situation is charming though.

	04-06-2005 09:13									#39
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc I still fail to see any reason that your assertion ... bears any weight.

Go on.

	04-06-2005 09:14									#40
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Why are we discussing Gitmo?

	04-06-2005 09:14									#41
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If you have to ask the question...

	04-06-2005 09:15									#42
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... then you obviously haven't noticed that Gitmo is all Ted can talk about anymore.

	04-06-2005 09:16									#43
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Your Reactionary boy DanS was actually the first to make a reference to it.

Thanks.

	04-06-2005 09:18									#44
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quote: Originally posted by Ted Striker Go on.

If you want to give credence to your assertion that OBL should have been been caught sooner you'd have to actually bother to provide a credible reason why. But that would require some work and maybe a little reasoning.

	04-06-2005 09:19									#45
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quote: ... then you obviously haven't noticed that Gitmo is all Ted can talk about anymore.

That's not true at all. He can talk about Abu Ghraib too. I've seen him do it!

	04-06-2005 09:20									#46
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Damn, you're right. He's so talented! *swoon*

	04-06-2005 09:20									#47
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I already made the point. But I'll repeat for you. More people and more assets looking for him means greater chance for finding him. Duh.


I find it hilarious though that you would actually try and make a judgement about someone doing work though.

	04-06-2005 09:21									#48
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I would like to see Dino's question answered.

	04-06-2005 09:22									#49
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Here's a good analogy:

Your generals tell you that to secure the peace of the country, you need several hundred thousand soliders to do it.

You send in 150,000 and all hell breaks loose, indefinitley.

If you had listened to them in the first place, maybe chaos wouldn't have broken out in the first place.

More resources focused on the target at hand = better result.

	04-06-2005 09:24									#50
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Exactly. Let's drop 300,000 troops into Pakistan, double quick!!!

	04-06-2005 09:24									#51
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quote: Originally posted by DanS That's not true at all. He can talk about Abu Ghraib too. I've seen him do it!

Thanks for pointing out the link between the two.

You're learning.

Next, you'll need to point out the CIA airplane that flew "suspects" to other nations like Egypt where things like torture are fine and dandy.

	04-06-2005 09:28									#52
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quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten Exactly. Let's drop 300,000 troops into Pakistan, double quick!!!

With bullseyes on their back saying "shoot me."

	04-06-2005 09:29									#53
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quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten Exactly. Let's drop 300,000 troops into Pakistan, double quick!!!

That was referring to Iraq.


While dropping a bunch of heavy tanks into Afghanistan won't do much good, having alot of troops there to do things like, ohhh, seal the borders, do searching, and not to mention all the invaluable intelligence assets that could be on the ground searching or undercover looking for the dude instead of chasing down Public Enemy Insurgent of the Week in Iraq.

Not to mention all the money being wasted.

	04-06-2005 09:30									#54
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I think the resulting nuclear war will be survivable. 10-20 million US dead, tops...

	04-06-2005 09:32									#55
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That doesn't even make sense.

	04-06-2005 09:39									#56
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

I wasn't talking to you. Was responding to my fellow reactionary...

	04-06-2005 09:40									#57
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You guys should start a club. Call it the Michigan Militia or something.

	04-06-2005 09:41									#58
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We already have one. It's called the Foreign Policy Establishment.

	04-06-2005 09:43									#59
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For just this once, I will make a serious post in this thread.

I don't know why we haven't bagged OBL yet.

Numbers don't seem particularly useful in Afghanistan. Rather, it seems like a good way of getting into a Soviet situation.

While some intelligence assets can only focus on one area, it seems that the methods to catch Saddam, Zarqawi and OBL would be similar. In this sense, each search adds to our experience with methods applicable to all such searches. No search detracts from the others.

Besides, we can walk and chew gum at the same time.

Having troops in Iraq acts as flypaper so that the Arab sunni jihadists are going to Iraq instead of Afghanistan. While a messy strategy, it makes sense in that the terrain in Iraq should be more hospitable than the terrain in Afghanistan. There is also a side benefit that the Arab sunni jihadists are giving terrorism a bad name in the heart of the Arab ME.

Besides, even if OBL is inaccessible in the Pakistan mountains, we can keep creating al Qaeda enemy #1s in Iraq and defeating them. Seems like a steady diet.

	04-06-2005 09:53									#60
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Numbers are useful in Afghanistan and it would not have led to a Soviet style problem because that phase of fighting any kind of standing army, or even any insurgency, is already over. These troops would be used for searching, sealing the border, training the new Afghan army, etc. They would be used mainly away from population areas, which is where they would be most needed anyway.

I think you are grossly underestimating how thin the military is stretched. If they weren't, there would have been 500,000+ guys on the ground as Powell and Shinseki (Chief of Staff of the Army at the time) had asked for. Franks also asked for more troops but he caved in.

Regarding this "drawing terrorists into Iraq" crap, it is wrong on so many levels. There are many foreign fighters coming into Iraq, but the majority of the violence is coming from Sunnis native to Iraq, many who example were out of a job when Bremer disbanded the whole army, and also alienated from the government.

On another level it is completely morally reprehensible to claim that bringing terrorists into Iraq is somehow a "good thing." These people's lives are being ruined. But hey, it's over there and not here, huh? Horrible.