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Imran Siddiqui is offline Imran Siddiqui

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  Old Post 07-06-2005 09:19
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No, too busy, but I think I know what the majority and dissenting opinions say. I'm sure the majority talks about precedents and distinguishes Lopez and Morrison on the grounds that this is actually is an economic activity that affects commerce. I'm sure the dissent says that Lopez and Morrison restrict interstate commerce to only things that direct go across state lines. Since neither Lopez nor Morrison overruled or distinguished Wickard (totally different issue), either reading is fine. It's just who's got the most votes in the end.

mrmitchell is offline mrmitchell
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  Old Post 07-06-2005 09:25
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quote:
I don't recall the Clinton Administration saying this sort of stuff was legal. The opposite, in fact.

Yeah they did, except for inhaling

Berzerker is offline Berzerker
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  Old Post 07-06-2005 09:37
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Imran, it isn't an economic activity, much less one crossing state lines. The court's rationale was that some doctors might over-prescribe pot (thats a federal matter?) or growers would sell across state lines. In other words, you cant grow pot in your backyard because someone else might violate a ban on selling pot across a state line or because a doctor didn't prescribe it correctly. You are punished for what someone else does, the very same argument for the drug war itself.

If the SCOTUS applied this to commerce, Congress could ban cars and bars because of drunk drivers. Hell, it could ban marriage if the drunk driver gets home and beats his wife.

Zkribbler is offline Zkribbler
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  Old Post 07-06-2005 10:33
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quote:
O'Connor, who like Rehnquist has had cancer, said she would have opposed California's medical marijuana law if she were a voter or a legislator. But she said the court was overreaching to endorse "making it a federal crime to grow small amounts of marijuana in one's own home for one's own medicinal use.''


This was the point I was trying to make.

If this is interstate commerce, what commerce is not interstate?

Imran Siddiqui is offline Imran Siddiqui

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  Old Post 07-06-2005 10:43
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quote:
Originally posted by Zkribbler
This was the point I was trying to make.

If this is interstate commerce, what commerce is not interstate?


I suggest reading Scalia's opinion. They are all on Findlaw. It's a combination of the Commerce Clause and the Necessary and Proper Clause. The basic jist is that Congress has the power, under the Commerce Clause directly to ban interstate drug trafficking. However, intrastate growing of drugs has a habit of making that regulation basically ineffective. Therefore a law banning intrastate growing of the good is necessary and proper to protect its right to regulate this commerce.

Your question is answered, basically, by saying that just about all commerce is considered interstate, and has been since the 1930s. This is probably even more true today when the economy is so intergrated by new technology.

That precedent will not go away. It's stuck. The limits placed on the Commerce Clause in the 90s (which were the FIRST limits placed on Congress's Commerce Clause power by the Supreme Court since the 1930s) applied to obviously non-economic activities (like carrying a gun or beating a woman).

One of the reasons is that it is a long and well cited precedent. The Supreme Court will not go back and overturn something like that which would change the entire government in a flash, rendering a great deal of federal legislation in the crapper (such as the aforementioned Title VII).

Zkribbler is offline Zkribbler
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  Old Post 07-06-2005 11:00
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Here's the heart of Steven's majority opinion. As Imran predicted, he bases it upon the possiblity of homegrown pot being drawn into interstate commerce. [Note: Both Imran & I referred to Wickard v. Filburn as Filburn. Stevens calls it Wickard.]

quote:
Wickard thus establishes that Congress can regulate purely intrastate activity that is not itself "commercial," in that it is not produced for sale, if it concludes that failure to regulate that class of activity would undercut the regulation of the interstate market in that commodity.

The similarities between this case and Wickard are striking. Like the farmer in Wickard, respondents are cultivating, for home consumption, a fungible commodity for which there is an established, albeit illegal, interstate market.28 Just as the Agricultural Adjustment Act was designed "to control the volume [of wheat] moving in interstate and foreign commerce in order to avoid surpluses ..." and consequently control the market price, id., at 115, a primary purpose of the CSA is to control the supply and demand of controlled substances in both lawful and unlawful drug markets. See nn. 20-21, supra. In Wickard, we had no difficulty concluding that Congress had a rational basis for believing that, when viewed in the aggregate, leaving home-consumed wheat outside the regulatory scheme would have a substantial influence on price and market conditions. Here too, Congress had a rational basis for concluding that leaving home-consumed marijuana outside federal control would similarly affect price and market conditions.

More concretely, one concern prompting inclusion of wheat grown for home consumption in the 1938 Act was that rising market prices could draw such wheat into the interstate market, resulting in lower market prices. Wickard, 317 U. S., at 128. The parallel concern making it appropriate to include marijuana grown for home consumption in the CSA is the likelihood that the high demand in the interstate market will draw such marijuana into that market. While the diversion of homegrown wheat tended to frustrate the federal interest in stabilizing prices by regulating the volume of commercial transactions in the interstate market, the diversion of homegrown marijuana tends to frustrate the federal interest in eliminating commercial transactions in the interstate market in their entirety. In both cases, the regulation is squarely within Congress' commerce power because production of the commodity meant for home consumption, be it wheat or marijuana, has a substantial effect on supply and demand in the national market for that commodity.29


Stevens goes on to distinguish this case from Lopez (Gun-Free Schools Act) and Morrison (Violence Against Women Act):

quote:
Unlike those at issue in Lopez and Morrison, the activities regulated by the CSA are quintessentially economic. "Economics" refers to "the production, distribution, and consumption of commodities."

Last edited by Zkribbler on 07-06-2005 at 11:07

Imran Siddiqui is offline Imran Siddiqui

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  Old Post 07-06-2005 11:17
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quote:
Note: Both Imran & I referred to Wickard v. Filburn as Filburn. Stevens calls it Wickard.


It's 'cause Filburn sounds cooler than Wickard .

Btw, I'd love for Congress to allow medical marijuana or state experimentation. I firmly believe that Stevens is right in that this pot would flood the market with effects in states without such liberal policies. It'd be the first step in full legalization, IMO (one can only wish).

Berzerker is offline Berzerker
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  Old Post 07-06-2005 13:03
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quote:
The parallel concern making it appropriate to include marijuana grown for home consumption in the CSA is the likelihood that the high demand in the interstate market will draw such marijuana into that market. While the diversion of homegrown wheat tended to frustrate the federal interest in stabilizing prices by regulating the volume of commercial transactions in the interstate market, the diversion of homegrown marijuana tends to frustrate the federal interest in eliminating commercial transactions in the interstate market in their entirety. In both cases, the regulation is squarely within Congress' commerce power because production of the commodity meant for home consumption, be it wheat or marijuana, has a substantial effect on supply and demand in the national market for that commodity.29


Cutting thru the BS, the SCOTUS has upheld Congress' authority to force us to buy stuff we don't want and punish us for buying stuff we do want.

Joe Blow sells pot across a state line and the SCOTUS says Congress can punish pot users who don't sell across state lines. Hey, punish Joe, not everyone else. Dont give us this BS that punishing Joe is too hard when your solution is to punish millions of people.

Drake Tungsten is offline Drake Tungsten
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  Old Post 07-06-2005 13:07
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Ramo is offline Ramo
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Just read the arguments. Stevens wrote that medical marijuana should probably be legal, but that the federal laws trump the states. O'Conner wrote that medical marijuana shouldn't be legal, but that medical marijuana isn't a sufficiently large industry to constitute interstate commerce. Interesting juxtaposition of beliefs.

Ramo is offline Ramo
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A few months ago, IIRC Leahy and Jeffords introduced a bill to have the feds defer to the states on medical mj. Hopefully, this decision will give the bill a little more support. Still very unlikely to pass....

Kidicious is offline Kidicious
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quote:
Originally posted by Berzerker
Imran, it isn't an economic activity, much less one crossing state lines. The court's rationale was that some doctors might over-prescribe pot (thats a federal matter?) or growers would sell across state lines.


And if I remember right from Business Law class that constitutes interstate commerce.

Zkribbler is offline Zkribbler
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  Old Post 08-06-2005 01:52
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quote:
Originally posted by Kidicious
And if I remember right from Business Law class that constitutes interstate commerce.


Berserker's, my and Justice Thomas's point is essentially that, if growing pot for your own consumption is considered "interstate commerce" then what the heck is not interstate commerce. Doesn't this case functionally obliterate the qualifier "interstate" in the Commerce Clause, leaving Congress free to regulate all commerce.

(Berserker, me & Justice Thomas agreeing. Wow, politics makes strange bedfellows . . . especially when illegal drugs are involved.)

Imran Siddiqui is offline Imran Siddiqui

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  Old Post 08-06-2005 02:01
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quote:
Doesn't this case functionally obliterate the qualifier "interstate" in the Commerce Clause, leaving Congress free to regulate all commerce.


What do you mean this case? That principle has been established since the 30s. Remember the Supreme Court never struck down Congress' regulation of something based on 'commerce' until the 90s, when it struck down handgun carrying and domestic violence, using the reasoning that they aren't commerce. The idea that intrastate commerce affects interstate commerce to a great degree isn't something the Supreme Court disagrees with.

And, of course, you, as opposed to Berzerker, knows that the Supreme Court decides what the Constitution does and does not say.

pchang is offline pchang
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  Old Post 08-06-2005 02:03
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Ah yes, the famous rule of 5.

MichaeltheGreat is offline MichaeltheGreat
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Oct 1999
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  Old Post 08-06-2005 03:55
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quote:
Originally posted by Berzerker
How did "regulate interstate commerce" become
"ban any product that effects interstate commerce"? By that "logic", Congress can ban all products. Do you really think thats what the Framers (and more importantly, the states) had in mind when they gave Congress that power? This is just another example of Congress using one power to create other powers that are not in the Constitution.


And the solution is.... :drumroll: for the people to elect a different batch of representatives to Congress.

quote:

Where in the Constitution does it say Congress can ban what you do or what you grow in your backyard because there are broader social and financial implications? Regulate interstate commerce? It isn't even commerce! And its painfully illogical to say we will make it illegal for you to grow and use pot because you're effecting interstate commerce. That means Congress can force me to buy a Ford Mustang because if I don't, I'm "effecting" interstate commerce. You cant grow and use that pot because by doing it yourself, you aren't buying it and that "effects" interstate commerce. But its illegal to buy! The lunatics are running the asylum...


Nice rhetorical question, but the Constitution isn't a body of regulations. Forcing a purchase of a specific brand of a specific product is a long way from banning a pharmaceutical plant, and as the court suggested, the remedy is for Congress to change the law.

MichaeltheGreat is offline MichaeltheGreat
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  Old Post 08-06-2005 04:05
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quote:
Originally posted by Zkribbler
Berserker's, my and Justice Thomas's point is essentially that, if growing pot for your own consumption is considered "interstate commerce" then what the heck is not interstate commerce. Doesn't this case functionally obliterate the qualifier "interstate" in the Commerce Clause, leaving Congress free to regulate all commerce.


Uh, Maybe the basic nature of commerce has changed in 218 years?

Most commerce was local at the time of the Constitution, and prior to the industrial revolution, products, services and commodities were standardized enough that interstate transactions were the exception, not the norm. Short and mid-term supply and demand imbalances were generally resolved locally as well, since it could be weeks or months before substantial interstate transactions would be at a large enough scale to affect local supplies. The only real exception until the development of railroads was seaborne commerce, which was already regulated at the Federal level (levees and customs duties).

Anyone who trades in commodity markets understands that those markets are global, even if the underlying commodities won't move across the world. I'm not going to be buying gold from Russia, but if they dump a few tons of gold into the market, it sure will affect the market price I pay for it. "Interstate" is no longer even an issue.

Zkribbler is offline Zkribbler
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  Old Post 08-06-2005 08:02
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quote:
Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
What do you mean this case?

I mean that even in the Filburn case, Congress was regulating interstate commerce. Here, Congress has outlawed interstate of marijuana, so home grown for personal use will not effect interstate commerce...a step further than the Filburn case.

quote:

And, of course, you . . . know that the Supreme Court decides what the Constitution does and does not say.

I'm not saying the Supreme Court's ruling isn't enforceable as the law of the land. I'm saying it's analytically flawed.

quote:
Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat
Maybe the basic nature of commerce has changed in 218 years?

That's why we can amend the Constitution.

DinoDoc is offline DinoDoc
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quote:
Originally posted by Zkribbler
That's why we can amend the Constitution.
You're taking your first steps to conservatism.

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quote:
Originally posted by Zkribbler


Berserker's, my and Justice Thomas's point is essentially that, if growing pot for your own consumption is considered "interstate commerce" then what the heck is not interstate commerce. Doesn't this case functionally obliterate the qualifier "interstate" in the Commerce Clause, leaving Congress free to regulate all commerce.



Pretty much yeah, but I'm sure there are exceptions.

Zkribbler is offline Zkribbler
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quote:
Originally posted by Kidicious
Pretty much yeah, but I'm sure there are exceptions.


See Imran's last post.

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quote:
Originally posted by Zkribbler
See Imran's last post.


I'm not sure how growing your own is interstate commerce, but since doctors were prescribing it to people who live out of state Congress has the power to regulate it. If the law had been written so that you could only grow your own then maybe Congress would not have the power to regulate. I'm not sure about that though.

Flip McWho is offline Flip McWho
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  Old Post 08-06-2005 09:45
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How can somthing thats technically illegal to possess be a part of the legal economy anyways?

MichaeltheGreat is offline MichaeltheGreat
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quote:
Originally posted by Flip McWho
How can somthing thats technically illegal to possess be a part of the legal economy anyways?


It doesn't matter. The authority to regulate interstate commerce isn't limited to regulating lawful commerce - smuggling and product piracy are still commerce.

Sikander is offline Sikander
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quote:
Originally posted by Oerdin
Conservative judges are just as activist as any other but they're activist about different things. They strike down laws to protect women from domestic violence on the claim the government doesn't have the authority to protect citizens from physical abuse ( ) then claim the government does have the authority (under the exact same clause) to outlaw medical treatments prescribed by doctors.

There are medical uses for MJ and as long as the program is tightly controlled and everyone must get a perscription from a doctor then there shouldn't be a problem.


What does this have to do with the issue at hand? Or anything for that matter?

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quote:
Originally posted by Gatekeeper
I've never quite understood just why the supposed benefits of smoking pot cigarettes couldn't be derived into a drug of some sort. That way, one would get the benefit without the side effect of blackening one's lungs.

Gatekeeper


There are a number of ersatz substitutes as well as marijuana based drugs like Marinol that are typically taken orally. Unfortunately for the medical user none of them have the same efficacy of smoking marijuana in many cases. The reason is that smoking marijuana produces a very rapid effect which peaks in its intensity fairly quickly. Thus symptoms (such as nausea) can be quickly dealt with in a manner that doesn't promote overdosing. Ingesting marijuana on the other hand acts much more slowly (which sucks if you have to wait an hour before your nausea abates) and last a lot longer, which means that patients typically have to be on the drug most of the time. This leads to them suffering side effects needlessly. I think they should have a choice.

Berzerker is offline Berzerker
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Kid
quote:
And if I remember right from Business Law class that constitutes interstate commerce.


This case wasn't about people selling pot across state lines, it was about producing and using your own or getting it for free from someone else within the state. The court said that because some people will sell across state lines Congress can ban it even when it doesn't cross state lines. That makes almost every activity under the sun "interstate commerce" and actual commerce doesn't even have to be in the equation.

quote:
I'm not sure how growing your own is interstate commerce, but since doctors were prescribing it to people who live out of state Congress has the power to regulate it.


No, they might have the power to regulate the stuff that is crossing state lines, not the stuff that stays in-state.

Imran
quote:
The idea that intrastate commerce affects interstate commerce to a great degree isn't something the Supreme Court disagrees with.


The Framers understood the nature of commerce and yet they made a deliberate distinction between a power to regulate interstate and intrastate commerce. As Zkribbler says, this decision ignores that distinction. If the Framers wanted Congress to have the power to regulate anything "effecting" interstate commerce, they would have said so.

MTG
quote:
And the solution is.... :drumroll: for the people to elect a different batch of representatives to Congress.


You mean the people who elected the politicians who are ignoring the Constitution? Well, no document is self-enforcing, but that doesn't mean the rest of us have to buy into the deceit.

quote:
Nice rhetorical question, but the Constitution isn't a body of regulations. Forcing a purchase of a specific brand of a specific product is a long way from banning a pharmaceutical plant, and as the court suggested, the remedy is for Congress to change the law.


It is a body of powers and none of those powers extends to what you grow in your backyard. Now, you say Congress forcing me to buy a specific product is a long way from this case. What do you think all those sick people will buy in the attempt to replace medicinal marijuana? They are being forced to buy stuff they don't want and punished for buying what they do want. In Filburn, Congress said he couldn't consume his own crops. What did he have to buy to replace the crops he could no longer consume?

And I was using the "logic" of the court in Filburn, if Congress can take your property because it "effects" interstate commerce, then Congress can require you to buy stuff you don't want based on the same reasoning - you don't buy the product and you "effect" interstate commerce. That was what the Filburn case was about. A farmer who was consuming part of his crops so he wouldn't have to buy someone else's crops to feed his family.

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Been sick - due to insomnia, I am laying on the couch and I read the dissent by Justice Thomas - damn it, now I'm going to have to pay attention to what he writes. SCOTUS is getting too weird, Scalia turning the "Necessary and Proper" clause into a hole conservative and liberal activists can drive a truck through, with virtually no limitations - read his descision, he essentially says there is no economic activity nor activity even remote related to it that the Federal Government does not have the right to regulate. Thomas is being the strict constructionist, and writing an excellent critique on it Here is Justice Thomas well written dissent.



quote:
ALBERTO R. GONZALES, ATTORNEY GENERAL, et al., PETITIONERS v. ANGEL McCLARY RAICH et al.

on writ of certiorari to the united states court of
appeals for the ninth circuit

[June 6, 2005]



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Justice Thomas, dissenting.

Respondents Diane Monson and Angel Raich use marijuana that has never been bought or sold, that has never crossed state lines, and that has had no demonstrable effect on the national market for marijuana. If Congress can regulate this under the Commerce Clause, then it can regulate virtually anything--and the Federal Government is no longer one of limited and enumerated powers.

I

Respondents' local cultivation and consumption of marijuana is not "Commerce ... among the several States." U. S. Const., Art. I, §8, cl. 3. By holding that Congress may regulate activity that is neither interstate nor commerce under the Interstate Commerce Clause, the Court abandons any attempt to enforce the Constitution's limits on federal power. The majority supports this conclusion by invoking, without explanation, the Necessary and Proper Clause. Regulating respondents' conduct, however, is not "necessary and proper for carrying into Execution" Congress' restrictions on the interstate drug trade. Art. I, §8, cl. 18. Thus, neither the Commerce Clause nor the Necessary and Proper Clause grants Congress the power to regulate respondents' conduct.

A

As I explained at length in United States v. Lopez, 514 U. S. 549 (1995), the Commerce Clause empowers Congress to regulate the buying and selling of goods and services trafficked across state lines. Id., at 586-589 (concurring opinion). The Clause's text, structure, and history all indicate that, at the time of the founding, the term " 'commerce' consisted of selling, buying, and bartering, as well as transporting for these purposes." Id., at 585 (Thomas, J., concurring). Commerce, or trade, stood in contrast to productive activities like manufacturing and agriculture. Id., at 586-587 (Thomas, J., concurring). Throughout founding-era dictionaries, Madison's notes from the Constitutional Convention, The Federalist Papers, and the ratification debates, the term "commerce" is consistently used to mean trade or exchange--not all economic or gainful activity that has some attenuated connection to trade or exchange. Ibid. (Thomas, J., concurring); Barnett, The Original Meaning of the Commerce Clause, 68 U. Chi. L. Rev. 101, 112-125 (2001). The term "commerce" commonly meant trade or exchange (and shipping for these purposes) not simply to those involved in the drafting and ratification processes, but also to the general public. Barnett, New Evidence of the Original Meaning of the Commerce Clause, 55 Ark. L. Rev. 847, 857-862 (2003).

Even the majority does not argue that respondents' conduct is itself "Commerce among the several States." Art. I, §8, cl. 3. Ante, at 19. Monson and Raich neither buy nor sell the marijuana that they consume. They cultivate their cannabis entirely in the State of California--it never crosses state lines, much less as part of a commercial transaction. Certainly no evidence from the founding suggests that "commerce" included the mere possession of a good or some purely personal activity that did not involve trade or exchange for value. In the early days of the Republic, it would have been unthinkable that Congress could prohibit the local cultivation, possession, and consumption of marijuana.

On this traditional understanding of "commerce," the Controlled Substances Act (CSA), 21 U. S. C. §801 et seq., regulates a great deal of marijuana trafficking that is interstate and commercial in character. The CSA does not, however, criminalize only the interstate buying and selling of marijuana. Instead, it bans the entire market--intrastate or interstate, noncommercial or commercial--for marijuana. Respondents are correct that the CSA exceeds Congress' commerce power as applied to their conduct, which is purely intrastate and noncommercial.

B

More difficult, however, is whether the CSA is a valid exercise of Congress' power to enact laws that are "necessary and proper for carrying into Execution" its power to regulate interstate commerce. Art. I, §8, cl. 18. The Necessary and Proper Clause is not a warrant to Congress to enact any law that bears some conceivable connection to the exercise of an enumerated power.1 Nor is it, however, a command to Congress to enact only laws that are absolutely indispensable to the exercise of an enumerated power.2

In McCulloch v. Maryland, 4 Wheat. 316 (1819), this Court, speaking through Chief Justice Marshall, set forth a test for determining when an Act of Congress is permissible under the Necessary and Proper Clause:

"Let the end be legitimate, let it be within the scope of the constitution, and all means which are appropriate, which are plainly adapted to that end, which are not prohibited, but consist with the letter and spirit of the constitution, are constitutional." Id., at 421.

To act under the Necessary and Proper Clause, then, Congress must select a means that is "appropriate" and "plainly adapted" to executing an enumerated power; the means cannot be otherwise "prohibited" by the Constitution; and the means cannot be inconsistent with "the letter and spirit of the [C]onstitution." Ibid.; D. Currie, The Constitution in the Supreme Court: The First Hundred Years 1789-1888, pp. 163-164 (1985). The CSA, as applied to respondents' conduct, is not a valid exercise of Congress' power under the Necessary and Proper Clause.

1

Congress has exercised its power over interstate commerce to criminalize trafficking in marijuana across state lines. The Government contends that banning Monson and Raich's intrastate drug activity is "necessary and proper for carrying into Execution" its regulation of interstate drug trafficking. Art. I, §8, cl. 18. See 21 U. S. C. §801(6). However, in order to be "necessary," the intrastate ban must be more than "a reasonable means [of] effectuat[ing] the regulation of interstate commerce." Brief for Petitioners 14; see ante, at 19 (majority opinion) (employing rational-basis review). It must be "plainly adapted" to regulating interstate marijuana trafficking--in other words, there must be an "obvious, simple, and direct relation" between the intrastate ban and the regulation of interstate commerce. Sabri v. United States, 541 U. S. 600, 613 (2004) (Thomas, J., concurring in judgment); see also United States v. Dewitt, 9 Wall. 41, 44 (1870) (finding ban on intrastate sale of lighting oils not "appropriate and plainly adapted means for carrying into execution" Congress' taxing power).

On its face, a ban on the intrastate cultivation, possession and distribution of marijuana may be plainly adapted to stopping the interstate flow of marijuana. Unregulated local growers and users could swell both the supply and the demand sides of the interstate marijuana market, making the market more difficult to regulate. Ante, at 9-10, 19 (majority opinion). But respondents do not challenge the CSA on its face. Instead, they challenge it as applied to their conduct. The question is thus whether the intrastate ban is "necessary and proper" as applied to medical marijuana users like respondents.3

Respondents are not regulable simply because they belong to a large class (local growers and users of marijuana) that Congress might need to reach, if they also belong to a distinct and separable subclass (local growers and users of state-authorized, medical marijuana) that does not undermine the CSA's interstate ban. Ante, at 6-7 (O'Connor, J., dissenting). The Court of Appeals found that respondents' "limited use is distinct from the broader illicit drug market," because "th[eir] medicinal marijuana ... is not intended for, nor does it enter, the stream of commerce." Raich v. Ashcroft, 352 F. 3d 1222, 1228 (CA9 2003). If that is generally true of individuals who grow and use marijuana for medical purposes under state law, then even assuming Congress has "obvious" and "plain" reasons why regulating intrastate cultivation and possession is necessary to regulating the interstate drug trade, none of those reasons applies to medical marijuana patients like Monson and Raich.

California's Compassionate Use Act sets respondents' conduct apart from other intrastate producers and users of marijuana. The Act channels marijuana use to "seriously ill Californians," Cal. Health & Safety Code Ann. §11362.5(b)(1)(A) (West Supp. 2005), and prohibits "the diversion of marijuana for nonmedical purposes," §11362.5(b)(2).4 California strictly controls the cultivation and possession of marijuana for medical purposes. To be eligible for its program, California requires that a patient have an illness that cannabis can relieve, such as cancer, AIDS, or arthritis, §11362.5(b)(1)(A), and that he obtain a physician's recommendation or approval, §11362.5(d). Qualified patients must provide personal and medical information to obtain medical identification cards, and there is a statewide registry of cardholders. §§11362.715-.76. Moreover, the Medical Board of California has issued guidelines for physicians' cannabis recommendations, and it sanctions physicians who do not comply with the guidelines. See, e.g., People v. Spark, 121 Cal. App. 4th 259, 263, 16 Cal. Rptr. 3d 840, 843 (2004).

This class of intrastate users is therefore distinguishable from others. We normally presume that States enforce their own laws, Riley v. National Federation of Blind of N. C., Inc., 487 U. S. 781, 795 (1988), and there is no reason to depart from that presumption here: Nothing suggests that California's controls are ineffective. The scant evidence that exists suggests that few people--the vast majority of whom are aged 40 or older--register to use medical marijuana. General Accounting Office, Marijuana: Early Experiences with Four States' Laws That Allow Use for Medical Purposes 22-23 (Rep. No. 03-189, Nov. 2002), http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d01389.pdf (all Internet materials as visited on June 3, 2005, and available in Clerk of Court's case file). In part because of the low incidence of medical marijuana use, many law enforcement officials report that the introduction of medical marijuana laws has not affected their law enforcement efforts. Id., at 32.

These controls belie the Government's assertion that placing medical marijuana outside the CSA's reach "would prevent effective enforcement of the interstate ban on drug trafficking." Brief for Petitioners 33. Enforcement of the CSA can continue as it did prior to the Compassionate Use Act. Only now, a qualified patient could avoid arrest or prosecution by presenting his identification card to law enforcement officers. In the event that a qualified patient is arrested for possession or his cannabis is seized, he could seek to prove as an affirmative defense that, in conformity with state law, he possessed or cultivated small quantities of marijuana intrastate solely for personal medical use. People v. Mower, 28 Cal. 4th 457, 469-470, 49 P. 3d 1067, 1073-1075 (2002); People v. Trippet, 56 Cal. App. 4th 1532, 1549 (1997). Moreover, under the CSA, certain drugs that present a high risk of abuse and addiction but that nevertheless have an accepted medical use--drugs like morphine and amphetamines--are available by prescription. 21 U. S. C. §§812(b)(2)(A)-(B); 21 CFR §1308.12 (2004). No one argues that permitting use of these drugs under medical supervision has undermined the CSA's restrictions.

But even assuming that States' controls allow some seepage of medical marijuana into the illicit drug market, there is a multibillion-dollar interstate market for marijuana. Executive Office of the President, Office of Nat. Drug Control Policy, Marijuana Fact Sheet 5 (Feb. 2004), http://www.whitehousedrugpolicy.gov...ana/index.html. It is difficult to see how this vast market could be affected by diverted medical cannabis, let alone in a way that makes regulating intrastate medical marijuana obviously essential to controlling the interstate drug market.

To be sure, Congress declared that state policy would disrupt federal law enforcement. It believed the across-the-board ban essential to policing interstate drug trafficking. 21 U. S. C. §801(6). But as Justice O'Connor points out, Congress presented no evidence in support of its conclusions, which are not so much findings of fact as assertions of power. Ante, at 13-14 (dissenting opinion). Congress cannot define the scope of its own power merely by declaring the necessity of its enactments.

In sum, neither in enacting the CSA nor in defending its application to respondents has the Government offered any obvious reason why banning medical marijuana use is necessary to stem the tide of interstate drug trafficking. Congress' goal of curtailing the interstate drug trade would not plainly be thwarted if it could not apply the CSA to patients like Monson and Raich. That is, unless Congress' aim is really to exercise police power of the sort reserved to the States in order to eliminate even the intrastate possession and use of marijuana.

2

Even assuming the CSA's ban on locally cultivated and consumed marijuana is "necessary," that does not mean it is also "proper." The means selected by Congress to regulate interstate commerce cannot be "prohibited" by, or inconsistent with the "letter and spirit" of, the Constitution. McCulloch, 4 Wheat., at 421.

In Lopez, I argued that allowing Congress to regulate intrastate, noncommercial activity under the Commerce Clause would confer on Congress a general "police power" over the Nation. 514 U. S., at 584, 600 (concurring opinion). This is no less the case if Congress ties its power to the Necessary and Proper Clause rather than the Commerce Clause. When agents from the Drug Enforcement Administration raided Monson's home, they seized six cannabis plants. If the Federal Government can regulate growing a half-dozen cannabis plants for personal consumption (not because it is interstate commerce, but because it is inextricably bound up with interstate commerce), then Congress' Article I powers--as expanded by the Necessary and Proper Clause--have no meaningful limits. Whether Congress aims at the possession of drugs, guns, or any number of other items, it may continue to "appropria[te] state police powers under the guise of regulating commerce." United States v. Morrison, 529 U. S. 598, 627 (2000) (Thomas, J., concurring).

Even if Congress may regulate purely intrastate activity when essential to exercising some enumerated power, see Dewitt, 9 Wall., at 44; but see Barnett, The Original Meaning of the Necessary and Proper Clause, 6 U. Pa. J. Const. L. 183, 186 (2003) (detailing statements by Founders that the Necessary and Proper Clause was not intended to expand the scope of Congress' enumerated powers), Congress may not use its incidental authority to subvert basic principles of federalism and dual sovereignty. Printz v. United States, 521 U. S. 898, 923-924 (1997); Alden v. Maine, 527 U. S. 706, 732-733 (1999); Garcia v. San Antonio Metropolitan Transit Authority, 469 U. S. 528, 585 (1985) (O'Connor, J., dissenting); The Federalist No. 33, pp. 204-205 (J. Cooke ed. 1961) (A. Hamilton) (hereinafter The Federalist).

Here, Congress has encroached on States' traditional police powers to define the criminal law and to protect the health, safety, and welfare of their citizens.5 Brecht v. Abrahamson, 507 U. S. 619, 635 (1993); Hillsborough County v. Automated Medical Laboratories, Inc., 471 U. S. 707, 719 (1985). Further, the Government's rationale--that it may regulate the production or possession of any commodity for which there is an interstate market--threatens to remove the remaining vestiges of States' traditional police powers. See Brief for Petitioners 21-22; cf. Ehrlich, The Increasing Federalization of Crime, 32 Ariz. St. L. J. 825, 826, 841 (2000) (describing both the relative recency of a large percentage of federal crimes and the lack of a relationship between some of these crimes and interstate commerce). This would convert the Necessary and Proper Clause into precisely what Chief Justice Marshall did not envision, a "pretext ... for the accomplishment of objects not intrusted to the government." McCulloch, supra, at 423.

shawnmmcc is offline shawnmmcc
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Jan 2003
time: 00:35
  Old Post 08-06-2005 14:32
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The remainder of Justice Thomas dissent.

quote:

II

The majority advances three reasons why the CSA is a legitimate exercise of Congress' authority under the Commerce Clause: First, respondents' conduct, taken in the aggregate, may substantially affect interstate commerce, ante, at 19; second, regulation of respondents' conduct is essential to regulating the interstate marijuana market, ante, at 21-22; and, third, regulation of respondents' conduct is incidental to regulating the interstate marijuana market, ante, at 19-20. Justice O'Connor explains why the majority's reasons cannot be reconciled with our recent Commerce Clause jurisprudence. The majority's justifications, however, suffer from even more fundamental flaws.

A

The majority holds that Congress may regulate intrastate cultivation and possession of medical marijuana under the Commerce Clause, because such conduct arguably has a substantial effect on interstate commerce. The majority's decision is further proof that the "substantial effects" test is a "rootless and malleable standard" at odds with the constitutional design. Morrison, supra, at 627 (Thomas, J., concurring).

The majority's treatment of the substantial effects test is rootless, because it is not tethered to either the Commerce Clause or the Necessary and Proper Clause. Under the Commerce Clause, Congress may regulate interstate commerce, not activities that substantially affect interstate commerce--any more than Congress may regulate activities that do not fall within, but that affect, the subjects of its other Article I powers. Lopez, supra, at 589 (Thomas, J., concurring). Whatever additional latitude the Necessary and Proper Clause affords, supra, at 9-10, the question is whether Congress' legislation is essential to the regulation of interstate commerce itself--not whether the legislation extends only to economic activities that substantially affect interstate commerce. Supra, at 4; ante, at 5 (Scalia, J., concurring in judgment).

The majority's treatment of the substantial effects test is malleable, because the majority expands the relevant conduct. By defining the class at a high level of generality (as the intrastate manufacture and possession of marijuana), the majority overlooks that individuals authorized by state law to manufacture and possess medical marijuana exert no demonstrable effect on the interstate drug market. Supra, at 7-8. The majority ignores that whether a particular activity substantially affects interstate commerce--and thus comes within Congress' reach on the majority's approach--can turn on a number of objective factors, like state action or features of the regulated activity itself. Ante, at 6-7 (O'Connor, J., dissenting). For instance, here, if California and other States are effectively regulating medical marijuana users, then these users have little effect on the interstate drug trade.6

The substantial effects test is easily manipulated for another reason. This Court has never held that Congress can regulate noneconomic activity that substantially affects interstate commerce. Morrison, 529 U. S., at 613 ("[T]hus far in our Nation's history our cases have upheld Commerce Clause regulation of intrastate activity only where that activity is economic in nature" (emphasis added)); Lopez, supra, at 560. To evade even that modest restriction on federal power, the majority defines economic activity in the broadest possible terms as the " 'the production, distribution, and consumption of commodities.' "7 Ante, at 23 (quoting Webster's Third New International Dictionary 720 (1966) (hereinafter Webster's 3d). This carves out a vast swath of activities that are subject to federal regulation. See ante, at 8-9 (O'Connor, J., dissenting). If the majority is to be taken seriously, the Federal Government may now regulate quilting bees, clothes drives, and potluck suppers throughout the 50 States. This makes a mockery of Madison's assurance to the people of New York that the "powers delegated" to the Federal Government are "few and defined," while those of the States are "numerous and indefinite." The Federalist No. 45, at 313 (J. Madison).

Moreover, even a Court interested more in the modern than the original understanding of the Constitution ought to resolve cases based on the meaning of words that are actually in the document. Congress is authorized to regulate "Commerce," and respondents' conduct does not qualify under any definition of that term.8 The majority's opinion only illustrates the steady drift away from the text of the Commerce Clause. There is an inexorable expansion from " 'commerce,' " ante, at 1, to "commercial" and "economic" activity, ante, at 20, and finally to all "production, distribution, and consumption" of goods or services for which there is an "established ... interstate market," ante, at 23. Federal power expands, but never contracts, with each new locution. The majority is not interpreting the Commerce Clause, but rewriting it.

The majority's rewriting of the Commerce Clause seems to be rooted in the belief that, unless the Commerce Clause covers the entire web of human activity, Congress will be left powerless to regulate the national economy effectively. Ante, at 15-16; Lopez, 514 U. S., at 573-574 (Kennedy, J., concurring). The interconnectedness of economic activity is not a modern phenomenon unfamiliar to the Framers. Id., at 590-593 (Thomas, J., concurring); Letter from J. Madison to S. Roane (Sept. 2, 1819), in 3 The Founders' Constitution 259-260 (P. Kurland & R. Lerner eds. 1987). Moreover, the Framers understood what the majority does not appear to fully appreciate: There is a danger to concentrating too much, as well as too little, power in the Federal Government. This Court has carefully avoided stripping Congress of its ability to regulate interstate commerce, but it has casually allowed the Federal Government to strip States of their ability to regulate intrastate commerce--not to mention a host of local activities, like mere drug possession, that are not commercial.

One searches the Court's opinion in vain for any hint of what aspect of American life is reserved to the States. Yet this Court knows that " '[t]he Constitution created a Federal Government of limited powers.' " New York v. United States, 505 U. S. 144, 155 (1992) (quoting Gregory v. Ashcroft, 501 U. S. 452, 457 (1991)). That is why today's decision will add no measure of stability to our Commerce Clause jurisprudence: This Court is willing neither to enforce limits on federal power, nor to declare the Tenth Amendment a dead letter. If stability is possible, it is only by discarding the stand-alone substantial effects test and revisiting our definition of "Commerce among the several States." Congress may regulate interstate commerce--not things that affect it, even when summed together, unless truly "necessary and proper" to regulating interstate commerce.

B

The majority also inconsistently contends that regulating respondents' conduct is both incidental and essential to a comprehensive legislative scheme. Ante, at 19-20, 21-22. I have already explained why the CSA's ban on local activity is not essential. Supra, at 7-8. However, the majority further claims that, because the CSA covers a great deal of interstate commerce, it "is of no moment" if it also "ensnares some purely intrastate activity." Ante, at 19. So long as Congress casts its net broadly over an interstate market, according to the majority, it is free to regulate interstate and intrastate activity alike. This cannot be justified under either the Commerce Clause or the Necessary and Proper Clause. If the activity is purely intrastate, then it may not be regulated under the Commerce Clause. And if the regulation of the intrastate activity is purely incidental, then it may not be regulated under the Necessary and Proper Clause.

Nevertheless, the majority terms this the "pivotal" distinction between the present case and Lopez and Morrison. Ante, at 20. In Lopez and Morrison, the parties asserted facial challenges, claiming "that a particular statute or provision fell outside Congress' commerce power in its entirety." Ante, at 20. Here, by contrast, respondents claim only that the CSA falls outside Congress' commerce power as applied to their individual conduct. According to the majority, while courts may set aside whole statutes or provisions, they may not "excise individual applications of a concededly valid statutory scheme." Ante, at 20-21; see also Perez v. United States, 402 U. S. 146, 154 (1971); Maryland v. Wirtz, 392 U. S. 183, 192-193 (1968).

It is true that if respondents' conduct is part of a "class of activities ... and that class is within the reach of federal power," Perez, supra, at 154 (emphases deleted), then respondents may not point to the de minimis effect of their own personal conduct on the interstate drug market, Wirtz, supra, at 196, n. 27. Ante, at 6 (O'Connor, J., dissenting). But that begs the question at issue: whether respondents' "class of activities" is "within the reach of federal power," which depends in turn on whether the class is defined at a low or a high level of generality. Supra, at 5. If medical marijuana patients like Monson and Raich largely stand outside the interstate drug market, then courts must excise them from the CSA's coverage. Congress expressly provided that if "a provision [of the CSA] is held invalid in one of more of its applications, the provision shall remain in effect in all its valid applications that are severable." 21 U. S. C. §901 (emphasis added); see also United States v. Booker, 543 U. S. ___, ___ (2005) (slip op., at 9, and n. 9) (Thomas, J., dissenting in part).

Even in the absence of an express severability provision, it is implausible that this Court could set aside entire portions of the United States Code as outside Congress' power in Lopez and Morrison, but it cannot engage in the more restrained practice of invalidating particular applications of the CSA that are beyond Congress' power. This Court has regularly entertained as-applied challenges under constitutional provisions, see United States v. Raines, 362 U. S. 17, 20-21 (1960), including the Commerce Clause, see Katzenbach v. McClung, 379 U. S. 294, 295 (1964); Heart of Atlanta Motel, Inc. v. United States, 379 U. S. 241, 249 (1964); Wickard v. Filburn, 317 U. S. 111, 113-114 (1942). There is no reason why, when Congress exceeds the scope of its commerce power, courts may not invalidate Congress' overreaching on a case-by-case basis. The CSA undoubtedly regulates a great deal of interstate commerce, but that is no license to regulate conduct that is neither interstate nor commercial, however minor or incidental.

If the majority is correct that Lopez and Morrison are distinct because they were facial challenges to "particular statute[s] or provision[s]," ante, at 20, then congressional power turns on the manner in which Congress packages legislation. Under the majority's reasoning, Congress could not enact--either as a single-subject statute or as a separate provision in the CSA--a prohibition on the intrastate possession or cultivation of marijuana. Nor could it enact an intrastate ban simply to supplement existing drug regulations. However, that same prohibition is perfectly constitutional when integrated into a piece of legislation that reaches other regulable conduct. Lopez, 514 U. S., at 600-601 (Thomas, J., concurring).

Finally, the majority's view--that because some of the CSA's applications are constitutional, they must all be constitutional--undermines its reliance on the substantial effects test. The intrastate conduct swept within a general regulatory scheme may or may not have a substantial effect on the relevant interstate market. "[O]ne always can draw the circle broadly enough to cover an activity that, when taken in isolation, would not have substantial effects on commerce." Id., at 600 (Thomas, J., concurring). The breadth of legislation that Congress enacts says nothing about whether the intrastate activity substantially affects interstate commerce, let alone whether it is necessary to the scheme. Because medical marijuana users in California and elsewhere are not placing substantial amounts of cannabis into the stream of interstate commerce, Congress may not regulate them under the substantial effects test, no matter how broadly it drafts the CSA.

***

The majority prevents States like California from devising drug policies that they have concluded provide much-needed respite to the seriously ill. It does so without any serious inquiry into the necessity for federal regulation or the propriety of "displac[ing] state regulation in areas of traditional state concern," id., at 583 (Kennedy, J., concurring). The majority's rush to embrace federal power "is especially unfortunate given the importance of showing respect for the sovereign States that comprise our Federal Union." United States v. Oakland Cannabis Buyers' Cooperative, 532 U. S. 483, 502 (2001) (Stevens, J., concurring in judgment). Our federalist system, properly understood, allows California and a growing number of other States to decide for themselves how to safeguard the health and welfare of their citizens. I would affirm the judgment of the Court of Appeals. I respectfully dissent.

Kuciwalker is offline Kuciwalker
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of Schmooism
Feb 2001
time: 00:35
  Old Post 08-06-2005 17:16
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quote:
Originally posted by Flip McWho
How can somthing thats technically illegal to possess be a part of the legal economy anyways?


Where does the constitution restrict Congress' commerce power to legal commerce?

 
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