14-06-2005 02:31									#31
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Then go ahead and create a poll thread if you so desire -- what is done is done.

	14-06-2005 04:59									#32
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quote: Originally posted by bipolarbear I'd just like to say as a rabid "Kerry's not the best but he's better than Bush" supporter, "Told ya so!" Honestly I got really worked up about the whole deal, and started to think the world might end if Bush got elected. But I cna still breathe, adn live for now. In the long run the world may be going to sh!t but living in the moment it is still good. On the Bright side, Falwell didn't run and win.

You wanted a man who received a Dishonorable Discharge from the Navy to lead your country, before WJ Clinton Order the Navy to change it to a General Discharge under Honorable condition? That ba$tard was a disgrace to the uniform that I wore.

BTW My Discharge read Honorable Discharge, US Navy.

No. 2 is my vote.

	14-06-2005 05:06									#33
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quote: Originally posted by Joseph You wanted a man who received a Dishonorable Discharge from the Navy to lead your country, before WJ Clinton Order the Navy to change it to a General Discharge under Honorable condition? That ba$tard was a disgrace to the uniform that I wore. BTW My Discharge read Honorable Discharge, US Navy. No. 2 is my vote.

What a crock of BS. Kerry's records were altered by Clinton in anticipation of his 2004 presidential race, I suppose?

I'm not sure what's more disturbing...that you'd be insane enough to believe this crap, or that you'd be immoral enough to repeat it.

	14-06-2005 05:20									#34
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I'd like to point out I did a write-in of Dr. Doom and Mickey Mouse.

	14-06-2005 05:26									#35
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Doom would never partner with such a pathetic oaf.

	14-06-2005 09:09									#36
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quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov What a crock of BS. Kerry's records were altered by Clinton in anticipation of his 2004 presidential race, I suppose? I'm not sure what's more disturbing...that you'd be insane enough to believe this crap, or that you'd be immoral enough to repeat it.

Stupid Swiftboat ads.

I've heard from sooooo many people that that is the reason they voted for Bush.

Well here is the obvious TRUTH of the matter.

Bush left his national guard service. He has a weak military record. That's why you see him parading around playing dressup in flight suits and landing on aircraft carriers, he wants people to think he's tough, even though he's never had to fight a single battle in his life. (Literally and figurativley).

Kerry, on the other hand, earned medals in combat, and was reported on record for bravery in combat.

Karl Rove knew Kerry's military record far outweighed Bush, and made him look like a chump. So, he attacked Kerry on his strength, and took that advantage away from him. Then the whole, "he's weak," thing started. Top all of that off by the background of the 9/11 FEAR PATROL, and you have a solid campaign strategy.

And that's how the election was won.

The braver man LOST.

	14-06-2005 09:13									#37
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Interesting . . . . . .


the second and third choice, when their numbers are combined together equal the first choice. The pro-Bushies are on the par with the not-pro Bushies at this point.

I wonder if the Gallup were to do this survey using a more sophisticated approach over a broad demographic and it would reveal a similar result?

	14-06-2005 22:15									#38
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc Doom would never partner with such a pathetic oaf.

He had to to pick up California.

	15-06-2005 07:43									#39
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quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov What a crock of BS. Kerry's records were altered by Clinton in anticipation of his 2004 presidential race, I suppose? I'm not sure what's more disturbing...that you'd be insane enough to believe this crap, or that you'd be immoral enough to repeat it.

Boris you have no ideal what goes on behind close doors.
I worked for the US Gov. for 33 years and saw shlt you would not believe if I told you.

	15-06-2005 07:56									#40
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So then share some of your stories, Joseph.

	15-06-2005 11:05									#41
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Money, meet Mouth. Mouth, Money.

	15-06-2005 11:06									#42
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quote: Bush left his national guard service. He has a weak military record. That's why you see him parading around playing dressup in flight suits and landing on aircraft carriers, he wants people to think he's tough, even though he's never had to fight a single battle in his life. (Literally and figurativley).

So, landed a jet on any aircraft carrier lately? I hear they say it isn't so tough. Betcha your momma could do it.

Ted, GWB has had to overcome idiots with more opinions than sense (or abilities) all his life. Now that is a battle.

Swiftvets ads were every bit as "true" as Kerry's own accounts. But at this point I'll heed the sage quip about arguing and let it go.

	15-06-2005 11:13									#43
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Bush didn't land the plane, no matter what spin you heard. No member of the Secret Service nor Armed Forces is going to entrust the safety of the President to the President, no matter who he or she is or what their background experience was.

	16-06-2005 06:02									#44
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quote: Originally posted by MrFun So then share some of your stories, Joseph.

If I did, some of my story would get me in trouble with the FBI. For real.

BTW at the Military.com site, some said Kerry signed his 180 to release his records. If he did, I want to see all of his 214.

	16-06-2005 09:13									#45
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quote: Originally posted by Joseph If I did, some of my story would get me in trouble with the FBI. For real.

You mean to tell me that every single on of your internal government experiences -- no matter WHAT it entailed -- is 100% confidential?

	16-06-2005 09:14									#46
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quote: Originally posted by Joseph Boris you have no ideal what goes on behind close doors. I worked for the US Gov. for 33 years and saw shlt you would not believe if I told you.

Yawn. I worked for the government before, too. And I don't doubt a lot of crazy, ****ed-up **** goes on. That's not the point.

The point is your contemptible lie about Kerry. If you have some evidence for it, by all means, present it. And posts from people on websites claiming they know it to be true don't count, you know.

It doesn't even make sense. Why would Clinton be changing Kerry's records? As far as Clinton was concerned, Gore would be his successor, so he'd have no way of knowing Kerry would even be running in 2004.

	16-06-2005 09:16									#47
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quote: Originally posted by MrFun You mean to tell me that every single on of your internal government experiences -- no matter WHAT it entailed -- is 100% confidential?

IIRC, he was a bubblehead in the cold war...go read Blind Man's Bluff.

	16-06-2005 09:46									#48
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quote: Originally posted by MrFun You mean to tell me that every single on of your internal government experiences -- no matter WHAT it entailed -- is 100% confidential?

When I work there, we were told many time a year to never tell anyone that we did in fact work there. We were never to wear our badge in the public. In SF they had spies. I'm sure some of them made their way to Vallejo to see what they could find out.

	16-06-2005 09:48									#49
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So then why bring up the comment that you originally brought up Joseph if you knew that you could not substantiate your statement?

	16-06-2005 09:59									#50
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quote: Originally posted by Straybow So, landed a jet on any aircraft carrier lately? I hear they say it isn't so tough. Betcha your momma could do it.

I'm sure with another pilot in the plane with me, it wouldn't be a problem.

quote: Ted, GWB has had to overcome idiots with more opinions than sense (or abilities) all his life. Now that is a battle.

Pay enough money to the right PR and media people, you don't really have to overcome much of anything.

quote: Swiftvets ads were every bit as "true" as Kerry's own accounts. But at this point I'll heed the sage quip about arguing and let it go.

Why stop now? Step up to the plate and prove your case, sir.


Thanks for the laugh though.

	16-06-2005 10:12									#51
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quote: Originally posted by MrFun You mean to tell me that every single on of your internal government experiences -- no matter WHAT it entailed -- is 100% confidential?

I can tell you that a Shop Head for the Welder was screwing his Sec. After he died, the new Shop Head has the Sec removed to another part of the base.
I can tell you that a Group Superintended wife rip off the bank she was working for, to the tune of 350,000.00. While he was taking kick back for cash awards that he was giving to his buddy. The FBI was all over the shipyard asking question, however all his buddy swore that they were not giving him kickback. After that all awards over 100. had to be signed by the Production Officers (Navy Capt). His wife got 3 years and 150,000.00 fine. I guess its OK to steal from a bank and you can keep 60%.

After an event in 1969, our Base Commander (Rear Adm.) was aloud to retire early. His career was over.

AKA Clinton. We had a guy in my shop screwlng this girl in the parking lot during lunch time. They were caught. She was temp. emp., so they fired her that day. The guy lost his security badge and was sent to another part of the base until all of his hearing were completed. Our Shop Head at the time, who lived across the street from me, recommended that the guy be fired. That was in 92 or so, and we were starting base closure, so I never heard if he did loose his job.

These kind of story I can tell you, the other, Oh Well.

	16-06-2005 10:17									#52
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That's nice -- but then again, as Boris kindly pointed out, what is your point other than "oh but look at the OTHER bad stuff that has happened!"?

	16-06-2005 10:20									#53
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quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov Yawn. I worked for the government before, too. And I don't doubt a lot of crazy, ****ed-up **** goes on. That's not the point. The point is your contemptible lie about Kerry. If you have some evidence for it, by all means, present it. And posts from people on websites claiming they know it to be true don't count, you know. It doesn't even make sense. Why would Clinton be changing Kerry's records? As far as Clinton was concerned, Gore would be his successor, so he'd have no way of knowing Kerry would even be running in 2004.

From what I have been told, his records were change in the first 2 years of Clinton being Pres.

And Kerry first Officer in Charge did not allow Kerry to received his first PH. 20 years later when that officer was now an Adm. in Washington ran into Kerry did not know than somehow Kerry did get a PH for same incident. You made love Kerry now, but as you get older, you might find out that he is not a sweetheart.

	16-06-2005 10:22									#54
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good boy, Joseph -- I still disagree with you, but you still get a cookie

	16-06-2005 10:52									#55
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quote: Originally posted by Joseph From what I have been told, his records were change in the first 2 years of Clinton being Pres.

Told by who? A right-wing blogger? Some Deep Throatesque Washington insider? Or perhaps one of those zany voices in your head?

Explain to me again why Clinton would be changing Kerry's record. In 1993-94, no less. And explain to me how. The man got scrutinized more than any previous president and was jumped on for everything. He didn't even have the wherewithal to pick a mistress who'd stay quiet. And you expect me to believe he somehow got the U.S. Navy to alter it's records on Kerry? Right.

quote: And Kerry first Officer in Charge did not allow Kerry to received his first PH. 20 years later when that officer was now an Adm. in Washington ran into Kerry did not know than somehow Kerry did get a PH for same incident. You made love Kerry now, but as you get older, you might find out that he is not a sweetheart.

First, Kerry's commanding officer wasn't in charge of giving him a Purple Heart. He says now (many years later) that he disagreed with giving it to him, but that doesn't mean he had any veto power over it. It was the Navy that issued it to him based on the various accounts of the incidents. In fact, that officer claims that he "dropped the matter" in correspondence with his superiors.

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/a...r_purple_heart/

Second, I've no love for Kerry. One need not love someone to realize the ridiculous slander being posted against them is a bunch of hateful vitriol by a few bitter people who don't like some things Kerry said 30 years ago.

	16-06-2005 10:55									#56
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Hitting it in the parking lot during lunch.

	17-06-2005 04:09									#57
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quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov Told by who? A right-wing blogger? Some Deep Throatesque Washington insider? Or perhaps one of those zany voices in your head?

Someone at the FFZ.

quote: Explain to me again why Clinton would be changing Kerry's record. In 1993-94, no less. And explain to me how. The man got scrutinized more than any previous president and was jumped on for everything. He didn't even have the wherewithal to pick a mistress who'd stay quiet. And you expect me to believe he somehow got the U.S. Navy to alter it's records on Kerry? Right.

A President can order the Military to do thing anytime he wants. The Military has 2 option; do it or resign.

quote: First, Kerry's commanding officer wasn't in charge of giving him a Purple Heart. He says now (many years later) that he disagreed with giving it to him, but that doesn't mean he had any veto power over it. It was the Navy that issued it to him based on the various accounts of the incidents. In fact, that officer claims that he "dropped the matter" in correspondence with his superiors. http://www.boston.com/news/nation/a...r_purple_heart/ Second, I've no love for Kerry. One need not love someone to realize the ridiculous slander being posted against them is a bunch of hateful vitriol by a few bitter people who don't like some things Kerry said 30 years ago.

I was told he refuse to sign the paper that would lead to an award for a PH.

	17-06-2005 04:49									#58
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quote: Someone at the FFZ.

And you expect to be taken seriously when you say that?

	17-06-2005 04:54									#59
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quote: Originally posted by Joseph Someone at the FFZ.

Uh-huh. And we should trust this person--whose identity you undoubtedly won't reveal--why, exactly? Or we should be trusting you why? Do you have any actual evidence? Do you know what the word "hearsay" means?

quote: A President can order the Military to do thing anytime he wants. The Military has 2 option; do it or resign.

Suuuuure. The president can order the military into action, but he can't order them to do illegal actions. And he certainly doesn't have the authority to doctor official records like that. An attempt to do such a thing would undoubtedly cause a big scandal, as the Navy wouldn't keep quiet about it, especially if the order came from a "draft dodger" like Clinton for someone as reviled by republican military types as Kerry. Use your brain.

Oh, and you still didn't bother to address why Clinton would be doing this in 1994. Why?

quote: I was told he refuse to sign the paper that would lead to an award for a PH.

Then whoever told you this was clearly wrong, as the article I cited quotes the guy directly and proves it wrong. Do you believe everything you hear just so long as it conforms to your prejudices? Looks like it. I swear, I'm beginning to think you might even be mildly retarded.

	17-06-2005 09:33									#60
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So, did Kerry sign the 180 to release his records in full, and can we see the 214s?