17-06-2005 21:49									#31
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quote: Originally posted by Oerdin Toyot'a Corolla is one of the most boring cars ever built so that's another dead end. So that just leaves the Civic or the Mazda 3.

Well, i'll need a little more than that to dump the Corolla.

quote: Personally I like the Mazda's interior and exterior better then the bland Civics plus the 3 comes iwth an optional 160hp 2.3L engine compared to the Civic's 116hp 1.6L. Both have 5 speed manuals or 4 speed autos but the Mazdaspeed version of the 3 comes with an optional 6 speed manual. The kicker is that the Mazda actually costs slightly less then the Civic.

I won't be going for the bigger engine anyway, but you are right about the price difference. It kinda surprised me actually.

quote: I'd also recommend you at least test drive a Chevrolet Cobalt

Too recent. I'll give it another couple of years on the market before i consider it. And it being a GM (albeit a German designed one) works against it in my book.

quote: ... the VW Golf.

You're right: i have to consider that one. Guess i was looking the wrong way...

	17-06-2005 21:55									#32
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quote: Originally posted by Kontiki Not by other people, but by the forces of a bus darting in and out of traffic, slamming on the brakes and gunning it whenever it had the chance.

fair...

quote: You're right: i have to consider that one. Guess i was looking the wrong way...

A friend of my friend's friend's friend told me yesterday that the Golf IV was to be avoided, because it's a car created in times when the company had saved money.... don't know if there is something to it...

	17-06-2005 22:38									#33
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The number one thing you should look for in a car is this: is it a babe magnet or not? Its all about sexual selection, man.

The Corolla is definitely not a babe magnet. It may be reliable, dependable, but it ain't fun, it ain't sexy. If the Corolla was a woman, would you date her? I don't think so.

So its either The Civic or the Mazda 3. Personally, I would get a Mazda 3 sport edition.

Or better yet, get yourself a muscle car from the fifties or the sixties

	17-06-2005 22:39									#34
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Mazda 3 Sport.

My baby.

	17-06-2005 22:53									#35
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quote: Originally posted by Richelieu Well, i'll need a little more than that to dump the Corolla.

Your call. Maybe you like driving boring uninvolved cars which put the driver to sleep. I enjoy sportier cars which are fun t drive so I guess my tastes are different from yours.

	17-06-2005 22:55									#36
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Honda Civic = telling the world you're gay.

Toyota make good cars that are reliable and will work forever. My last car was a 1980 Corona XT (yes NS has this thing about old cars). Great car.

	17-06-2005 22:59									#37
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Toyota = telling the world that, deep down inside, you're an old lady

	17-06-2005 23:09									#38
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My choice, if I was in the market for a small car, would be either the Mazdaspeed 3 Sedan or the Chevrolet Cobalt SS with the 205 HP motor and the six speed manual. Either way my next car is going to be a Honda S2000 unless I have to get a four door for some reason and then I'd go for an Infinity G35 AWD.

Mazda 3 Sedan (I look a proper trunk over a hatchback)


Chevrolet Cobalt


S2000


Infinity G35 with AWD and a 298HP 3.5LV6, 6 speed manual, and just about everything else. Prices from $28k-$32K depending upon options.

	17-06-2005 23:11									#39
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quote: Originally posted by nostromo Toyota = telling the world that, deep down inside, you're an old lady

Yes. That's the point. Potential thieves are not going to smash in your window if they think their grand haul will be some boiled sweets and a bottle of suppositories.

	17-06-2005 23:18									#40
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Want to bet? Thieves steal cars for parts not because the cars excite them. Basically they're looking for 5-10 year old cars which sold in large numbers since those are the ones which are going to need the most parts.

	17-06-2005 23:19									#41
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quote: Originally posted by Oerdin Want to bet? Thieves steal cars for parts not because the cars excite them. Basically they're looking for 5-10 year old cars which sold in large numbers since those are the ones which are going to need the most parts.

They wouldn't have touched my last car.

	17-06-2005 23:26									#42
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Avoid Hyundai like the plague.

	17-06-2005 23:31									#43
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Put a couple of dead pigs in your car, seal the car tight. Then wait a month or so. Then remove the pigs. Voilà! Nobody in his right mind will try to steal your car.

	17-06-2005 23:40									#44
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quote: (I look a proper trunk over a hatchback)

Isn't the hatchback a lot more practical? When you fold the rear seats down flat, you've got enormous storage capacity.

This was pretty essentially for me, 'cause I'm out here by myself without knowing people with trucks, etc.

I've been able to fit entire desks and chairs easily in the back.

	17-06-2005 23:43									#45
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quote: Originally posted by mrmitchell Avoid Hyundai like the plague.

Why? I've been looking for those bad reviews for the 2004 / 2005 Elantra and i have seen more good ones than bad ones.

But then again, of course, i suck at the internet...

	17-06-2005 23:44									#46
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Say what you will about Hyundais, they're still better than Trabis and Yugos.

I dunno about the cars lately, but the reviews I'm hearing about recent, post-2002 Hyundais have been positive. Apparently, there's been a huge quality boost, not unlike what Jaguar went through post-1997. (Though, Jaguar has the bonus of being a luxury car, so it got away with a lot more crap.)

	17-06-2005 23:47									#47
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Honda

	18-06-2005 02:21									#48
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quote: Originally posted by Oerdin Your call. Maybe you like driving boring uninvolved cars which put the driver to sleep. I enjoy sportier cars which are fun t drive so I guess my tastes are different from yours.

You clearly never drove a Corolla GTI. It was a beast. Many was the corner I took on three wheels.

	18-06-2005 05:24									#49
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quote: Originally posted by Asher Isn't the hatchback a lot more practical? When you fold the rear seats down flat, you've got enormous storage capacity. This was pretty essentially for me, 'cause I'm out here by myself without knowing people with trucks, etc. I've been able to fit entire desks and chairs easily in the back.

Yeah, those hatchbacks do have more usable space. I guess it depends on what you need and what you like.

	18-06-2005 05:56									#50
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quote: Originally posted by Richelieu Why? I've been looking for those bad reviews for the 2004 / 2005 Elantra and i have seen more good ones than bad ones. But then again, of course, i suck at the internet...

First of all let me point out that problems per vehicle have been rapidly decreasing over the last several years by all manufacturers. In 1998 the industry standard was 176 problems per 100 vehicles while today the industry average is 118 problems per 100 vehicles. So what was great 10 years ago is crap today and every car maker is making hugely better cars.

Now on to the details of the 2005 survey which were released last month. The big news is GM has beat out Honda for the #2 spot on the quality survey for the first time while Toyota remains the #1. Honda has been rolling out a number of new models world wide recently and has been having some quality hickups. Honda is still #3 but you'd think GM unseating Honda would be bigger news.

Hyundai, like most automakers, is doing much better then they used to. Just five years ago they were averaging around 400 defects per vehicle (which was many times the industry average) where as in the 2005 ratings they're averaging 110 which is slightly above average. Corporate stable mate Kia still have big problems with an average of 140 defects per 100 vehicles. Heck, the Hyundai Sonata even got a runner up prize (along with the VW Jetta) for best entry level midsized but lost out to the Chevrolet Maxx. So Hyundai isn't any where near as god aweful as they used to be. I'd still give them a few years to make sure their new found quality is for real.

Here's the 2005 results by nameplate (the previous numbers were by corporation (meaning GM counts for all 7 of its name brands & Toyota counts for its 3 name brands, etc). Please not that the Europeans seemed to make a big comback this year over last with BMW, Mercedes-Benz, and Jaguar greatly moving up the list after quality problems over the last few years. I'm happy to see they've turned things around. Percentage wise Hummer, Nissan, and Scion had the biggest quality improvements in 2005.

quote: Above average Lexus 81 Jaguar 88 BMW 95 Buick 100 Cadillac 104 Mercedes-Benz 104 Toyota 105 Audi 106 Infiniti 109 Hummer 110 Hyundai 110 Honda 112 GMC 113 Lincoln 113 Acura 116 Below average Jeep 120 Mercury 120 Nissan 120 Chrysler 121 Chevrolet 127 Ford 127 Mitsubishi 129 Pontiac 129 Dodge 130 MINI 130 Scion 134 Saab 136 Saturn 136 Subaru 138 Kia 140 Volvo 140 Porsche 147 Volkswagen 147 Land Rover 149 Mazda 149 Suzuki 151

http://www.detnews.com/2005/autosin...auto-186012.htm

	18-06-2005 05:57									#51
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I'm very surprised at how well Hummer did. You can say you don't like them, that they're to big, and that they use to much gas but you can't claim they aren't damn well built.

The civilian ones are ace anyway while the military ones are still made by AM General (the old military arm of the American Motors Corporation) and are crap.

	18-06-2005 05:57									#52
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quote: Originally posted by nostromo Put a couple of dead pigs in your car, seal the car tight. Then wait a month or so. Then remove the pigs. Voilà! Nobody in his right mind will try to steal your car.

I believe the answer to the original question is now "Not one previously owned by Nostromo."

	18-06-2005 06:03									#53
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There are 15 above average brands with 5 Japanese, 5 American, 3 German, 1 British, and 1 Korean. Are you people surprised? You shouldn't be if you've been watching the quality studies over the last half decade. Except for Hyundai which is a new comer to the above average field.

	18-06-2005 06:28									#54
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In spite of owning a Tacoma (assembled in USA, thank you very much), I voted Honda out of this group of rice burners.
Saturns are good.

If you're patient, might could find a Yugo.

	18-06-2005 06:37									#55
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quote: Originally posted by Lazarus and the Gimp You clearly never drove a Corolla GTI. It was a beast. Many was the corner I took on three wheels.

The problem with Toyotas is even when they build a fast car it is still boring. The steering wheel is numb and doesn't communicate like a real sports car or sports sedan, the breaks have no feel, the shifter is smooth but not very involving, and then there is Toyota's bland gets lost in any parking lot styling. They are well made if uninspiring cars.

Toyota has perfected the art of car as appliance. Some of us want more then just an appliance; we want a fun car that also gets us noticed.

	18-06-2005 06:46									#56
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This Tacoma is a 6.

Red is the most ticketed and stolen color, so keep that in mind.

	18-06-2005 06:54									#57
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i voted banana... don't really like any of those choices.

	18-06-2005 08:17									#58
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women and their expensive tastes

	18-06-2005 12:23									#59
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Oerdin- your comments in favour of GM have always puzzled me. You see, over here "GM" means "Vauxhall", and they're notoriously crap. A few years ago the Vectra came rock bottom in the JD Power survey.

I notive Vauxhall/Opel doesn't feature on your list.

	18-06-2005 12:28									#60
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Go with the Civic.


Oerdin,

Can you even fit in that S2000? I thought you were like 6'1"?