18-06-2005 09:44									#31
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This one doesn't look respectable but it's the first search result.

quote: George W. Bush lied when he said that he first got to know Ken Lay in 1994, and that Ken Lay was a supporter of his opponent, Ann Richards. Actually, Lay first started contributing to GW's career back in 1978, and in fact gave GW three times as much money in 1994 as he did Ann Richards.

http://www.hereinreality.com/enron.html
It has a broken link to an article, though!

letters sent between Ken Lay and George Bush
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/bushlay1.html
Some of them are just plain ridiculous

quote: President George W. Bush has been an Enron favorite. Enron and its employees contributed $312,500 to Bush’s 1994 and 1998 Texas gubernatorial campaigns. Another $113,800 was donated to the Bush 2000 presidential campaign. (Enron also gave $10,500 to the Bush-Cheney Recount Fund and $300,000 to the Bush-Cheney 2001 Inaugural Fund.) [Source: Center for Responsive Politics].

http://www.citizen.org/congress/cam...les.cfm?ID=6693

I can't find a cite for "number one total contributor" in the top 3 links, but given the letters in the smoking gun's archive...I SUPER doubt Bush's relationship with Enron is "just another contributor."

	18-06-2005 09:51									#32
	Increase the size of your Attachments

"Enron and it's employees" != Ken Lay.

I've still yet to find any cite that claims that Lay/Enron, in whatever combination and permutation, were the "largest donors" to any of Bush's campaigns.

	18-06-2005 09:54									#33
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quote: I've still yet to find any cite that claims that Lay/Enron, in whatever combination and permutation, were the "largest donors" to any of Bush's campaigns.

No, I don't mean Enron was combined altogether, I mean all Bush's campaigns were combined.

	18-06-2005 09:54									#34
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I mean, the hyperbole is so thick on this one that Oerdin can claim that Lay supported GHW Bush's 1970's-era Congressional run even though:

1. Bush didn't run for Congress during the 1970's.

2. Lay lived in Florida, a state that neither Bush ran for office in/from.

3. Lay didn't even meet Bush until 1980, when Lay first supported Bush in his run for the Presidency.

	18-06-2005 09:56									#36
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quote: Originally posted by mrmitchell No, I don't mean Enron was combined altogether, I mean all Bush's campaigns were combined.

I call BS. Especially until you can find an, again, credible cite on this.

It's 1:00am where I'm sitting, 19 hours after I first woke this (well, yesterday) morning, and I'm able to do my research. Perhaps y'all should too?

	18-06-2005 10:36									#37
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Ahhh. Oerdin's referring to GW's run for Congress in 1978. I was mixing my Bush's. My bad.

However, it doesn't obviate the point that Lay didn't and couldn't support Bush's 1978 Texas run while living and working in Florida.

	18-06-2005 11:36									#38
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quote: Originally posted by Oerdin It sure would have been nice to get the big cheeses less then half a decade after their crimes were exposed. It sure seems like the law men weren't moving as quickly as they could have. I guess it was because they didn't want to make any mistakes but justice should be swifter then that.

Someone needs to find out how complex white collar litigation is. I believe the average time to trial for cases like this is around 10 years due to the complexity that has to be unravelled. IIRC, it was by the late 90s that the S&L crisis got its jail time sorted out.

'Cause, you know, if you mess something up, that's it. You can't try them again. That whole double jeopardy rule and all that.

	18-06-2005 14:10									#39
	Put an end to popups!

One other factor reference white collar crime. Once you are found criminally guilty, it is MUCH easier for you to be sued in civil court over those same actions, due to the lower standard of proof. So in many of these cases they will lose some of their ill-gotten gains, at least those they did not move offshore to havens like the Cayman Islands.

	18-06-2005 14:18									#40
	Suffering from ads?

Another example of Executives benefitting while the little guy is punished for bad decisions:

http://boston.internet.com/news/article.php/975661

quote: After laying off almost 4,500 people from companies it acquired in 2001, undersea fiber-optic cable maker Tyco International (Quote, Chart) revealed that it will pink-slip an additional 1,500 workers and close 47 plants across the globe in 2002.

	18-06-2005 20:27									#41
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quote: Originally posted by JohnT I'm really interested in the cite about Lay supporting GHW Bush's run for Congress in the 1970's, given that Bush was the Director of the CIA during the Nixon administration, didn't run for Congress at all during that decade, and from 1973-1980 Lay lived and worked in Florida.

GHW Bush was only head of the CIA for one year, 1976-1977. GHB ran for Congress in '76 or '78, don't remember which.