25-06-2005 13:26									#61
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: Originally posted by Vince278 I'm aware of what they believed was their reasons for what they did but being aware of an insane person's motivations doesn't make them any less insane.

Yeah, but you haven't demonstrated any proof of your claim, other than you can't explain their actions. Big deal.

	25-06-2005 13:29									#62
	Increase Your PM Length

Single source documentary, after the opening up of the Soviet records. It does match the other details about what I know concerning Stalin, i.e. the drinking, his personal approval and changes to the district Terror tallies, and his other paranoid behavior that was actually anti-survival as in the extent of the purges. I am normally leary of single source cites, but when everything else is consistant, I will mention them.

	25-06-2005 13:38									#63
	Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: Originally posted by techumseh Yeah, but you haven't demonstrated any proof of your claim, other than you can't explain their actions. Big deal.

Now there's an ostrich sticking his head in the sand. Pop your head out of wherever its sticking and Google for the proof. I'm not going to be your librarian. Past experience has shown me that biased people will deny whatever proof given anyway.

	25-06-2005 13:40									#64
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

You'll have to be more specific, but in the morning. Goodnight.

	25-06-2005 13:42									#65
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: Originally posted by Vince278 Now there's an ostrich sticking his head in the sand. Pop your head out of wherever its sticking and Google for the proof. I'm not going to be your librarian. Past experience has shown me that biased people will deny whatever proof given anyway.

No, you have to back up your assertion. Evidence, please!

Good night.

	25-06-2005 13:53									#66
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Vince278 Now there's an ostrich sticking his head in the sand. Pop your head out of wherever its sticking and Google for the proof. I'm not going to be your librarian. Past experience has shown me that biased people will deny whatever proof given anyway.

	25-06-2005 13:57									#67
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Stalin and Krushchev insane? WTF? If they were insane we would have already suffered nuclear holocaust.

	25-06-2005 14:09									#68
	Get a bigger avatar today!

Paranoids are some of the most highly functional schitzophrenics, and are capable of taking very rational actions based on their paranoid delusions. Also, Stalin had very little opportunity, the first Soviet A-bomb test was 29 August 1949 and Stalin died in March of 1953. If you include developing the infrastructure to start a Nuclear War, and survive it, he simply didn't have time. Thankfully.

	25-06-2005 14:12									#69
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Well in that case, we can say that Nixon was as sane (or insane, if that is your argument) as Stalin ever was .

	25-06-2005 14:23									#70
	Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui Stalin and Krushchev insane? WTF? If they were insane we would have already suffered nuclear holocaust.

What? And lose worshippers?

	25-06-2005 14:24									#71
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Thankfully he targeted his domestic entities. Have you ever watched "The Dead Zone" (movie version with Christopher Walken)? It deals with that issue very nicely. I love the fact that we had a President who as a minimum ended his second term in early stage, and very probably mid-stage, Alzheimer's. He had immediate access to the Big Red Button. Now wasn't that just peachy keen.

	25-06-2005 14:24									#72
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui Well in that case, we can say that Nixon was as sane (or insane, if that is your argument) as Stalin ever was .

(Once again) How so?

	25-06-2005 14:25									#73
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Don't tell me you know nothing about Nixon's extreme paranoia.

	25-06-2005 14:38									#74
	Tired of ads?

Sure I do. However, how many Ukranians did he kill? How does Nixon compare to Stalin? (This ought to be good...)

	25-06-2005 14:49									#75
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

You are the king of not getting simple concepts aren't you (or what the debate is about, for that matter)?

Nixon was as paranoid as Stalin was. The difference betwen that Stalin was in a society where he could have absolute power and Nixon was not. Though, of course, there are rumblings about Nixon musing about using the army to prevent Congress from getting him.

Do you think that if Nixon was in Stalin's position that he would be less paranoid than Stalin was?

	25-06-2005 15:03									#76
	Suffering from ads?

quote: Originally posted by Vince278 Sure I do. However, how many Ukranians did he kill? How does Nixon compare to Stalin? (This ought to be good...)

How many Chileans ?

I wouldn't have thought that the point was 'how many' but 'why' .

What on earth was the United States doing interfering in the democratic process of a sovereign nation ?

Simply following the precedent set in Guatemala in the 1950s ?

	25-06-2005 15:18									#77
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui You are the king of not getting simple concepts aren't you (or what the debate is about, for that matter)?

King or Deity, it makes no difference. Besides, only people who are losing a debate resort to personal comments such as these.

quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui Do you think that if Nixon was in Stalin's position that he would be less paranoid than Stalin was?

Faulty logic. Nixon wasn't even in Stalin's league. Apples and oranges.

	25-06-2005 15:20									#78
	Put an end to popups!

Sorry, my shift's over. Gotta go.

	26-06-2005 14:32									#79
	Get a bigger avatar today!

quote: Originally posted by techumseh Did nukes prevent WWIII? Certainly the aquisition of the A-bomb by the USSR did restrain the US and it's European allies. There is no evidence that the USSR planned to attack the west in the face of a US nuclear monopoly, or later. On the other hand, it was the US monopoly of nuclear weapons which allowed the Pentagon to dream of a war of aggression against the Soviets.

Actually, I'd like you to back this up. What WERE all these Guards and Shock armies doing in East Germany anyway? And WHY was the whole naval strategy of USSR bent on preventing NATO convoys completing REFORGER? And WHY was NATO naval strategy bent on preventing USSR from preventing REFORGER?

Also, got any NATO OOB's in Germany 1960-1985? matching ones from Warsaw Pact?

	26-06-2005 20:51									#80
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Slow day at the bank Saras?

The Rooskite mennace had 20 divisions in East Germany, 20 in Poland, 10 or so in Czechoslovakia...

The US had me and MtG, and that's about it. Diss in a submarine somewhere, JT doin something or other...etc

	27-06-2005 00:28									#81
	Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by Lancer Slow day at the bank Saras? The Rooskite mennace had 20 divisions in East Germany, 20 in Poland, 10 or so in Czechoslovakia... The US had me and MtG, and that's about it. Diss in a submarine somewhere, JT doin something or other...etc

It's SATURDAY

Seriously, anyone have reliable OOB's for NATO in West Germany 1960 - 1985?

	27-06-2005 00:45									#82
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

TEH EVIL CZECHS!!!

http://www.isn.ethz.ch/php/document...rplan1-engl.htm

	27-06-2005 00:49									#83
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

http://orbat.com/site/history/histo...warsawpact.html

I think I can get some more...

	27-06-2005 00:58									#84
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I found that one; but that's WP, I need NATO. I found this for 1967:

http://www.isn.ethz.ch/php/document...nbb44_part1.pdf

	27-06-2005 01:01									#85
	Increase Your PM Length

quote: Originally posted by Lancer The US had me and MtG, and that's about it. Diss in a submarine somewhere, JT doin something or other...etc

I was in West Germany in 1985 (doing airmobile comm).

	27-06-2005 01:04									#86
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

http://www.isn.ethz.ch/php/document.../docs/nbb55.pdf

This one has a table on page 13 that looks like what's needed.

	27-06-2005 01:10									#87
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Nine days to Antwerp?

http://www.isn.ethz.ch/php/document...7/docs/nbb1.pdf

	27-06-2005 01:55									#88
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Vince, shheeesh! If I tell these guys there were three of us they'll know we were ready to invade, eh?



...a winks' as good as a nod to a deaf monkey...

...actually how does that saying go?

Saras, what are you doing with this stuff, making an scn?

	27-06-2005 14:43									#89
	Increase Your PM Length

The US also has plans to invade Canada.

Just because the Soviets had a plan to invade Western Europe it means nothing.

	27-06-2005 15:05									#90
	Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger Just because the Soviets had a plan to invade Western Europe it means nothing.

Oh, I also assume US has 10 armored divisions poised to take what needed to be taken in 1776-1812?

Get a grip.