06-07-2005 03:13									#31
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quote: Originally posted by lajzar Personally, I'd like to see building maintenance unchanged.

Hear, hear!

	09-07-2005 03:58									#32
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I will miss rioting. Those rioting little peasanties really influenced the way I played the game. It wasn't just something that slowed you down, it was a real PAIN in the A** I deserved for the things I as a leader did to contribute to it. I was literally afriad of my people rioting. It seems to me that now it will be more of a strategic decision we get to make. In other words, it will actually be a legitimate style of play to allow some of your cities to riot, as you exploit them. I think I liked it better as a risky proposition with the threat of neutralizing entire cities at a time. Also, the possibilities for espionage seemed better under that system, too. I'll give it a chance though, maybe it will still be a good punishment.

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	09-07-2005 07:42									#33
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The problem I have with rioting (as it was implemented) is that it promotes too much micromanagement. You didn't get any overt warning that a city was about to riot, so you'd have to check each and every city that's about to grow to see if one more unhappy citizen would be enough to start a riot. Pain in the ass in my mind.

Now, if they'd include some sort of warning system that didn't involve micromanagement...

	09-07-2005 08:07									#34
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Yes, it definitely needed a warning system. I never understood the lack of it; especially with ALL the updates Civ III got. I agree with you there on all points. I don't think ANYONE enjoyed that. I most enjoyed it, though, in the times when your city went into riot without serious maintenance. Mainly, these were times when I was in a long-standing war with an opponent and then I captured one of their cities. The new population would be so mad at me, even after assimilation (or whatever that was called) that I had to do everything in my power to keep the people from rioting.

Of course, all of this doesn't matter now. I wonder what kind of espionage tricks we will be able to use, if we can't provoke riots in enemy cities.

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	09-07-2005 10:36									#35
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*watched the latest video*

Wha? Roads dont give you commerce bonus? WHA?

This is insane! The tomb has been robbed! Sacrilegium!
Holy Molly! Holly sh*t!

I loved building roads, i LOOOOOOOOOOVED them, because they looked good (CIV II) and gave me trade bonuuuuuusssssss

Owwwwwwwww this is so sick! so pervert! this guys have never played a CIV game in their lifes!!!!

	09-07-2005 11:04									#36
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Perhaps that is how they are discouraging us from placing roads on every square. I wouldn't be surprised to see some kind of upkeep in the future since real roads require regular maintenance.

	09-07-2005 18:48									#37
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No more roads on every square . Now roads will probably be placed in a fashion that makes sense for unit movement, that is with logical routes instead of every square. Good!

	10-07-2005 01:08									#38
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Ive watched this video too and near the end Jesse mentions something he called Town permits 7mins 30 secs in, he mentioned you would have 19 town permits and that they would allow the builder types to specialise your cities


Does this mean that there will be some limits to how many improvements a town can build ? he goes on to say this will allow the player to specialise cities !!

Is there any other info reffering to this anywhere ?

	10-07-2005 03:20									#39
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where do i find this new video?????/

	10-07-2005 03:33									#40
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http://media.pc.ign.com/media/620/620513/vids_1.html

heres the link

	10-07-2005 03:48									#41
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thanks for the link


Now i did hear him say roads now only give movement bonus, so that players don't build roads everywhere.

.... but whats stopping someone from building roads everywhere with their idle workers?

	10-07-2005 03:57									#42
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Maybe it's harder to build both workers and roads, so you're less likely to have idle workers and less likely to want to devote them to useless roads.

	10-07-2005 04:28									#43
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quote: .... but whats stopping someone from building roads everywhere with their idle workers?

If they don't give a commerce bonus anymore, why would you want to do that?

	10-07-2005 08:42									#44
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Because of the chance you might need to move into that square. Or, to be more precise, out of it.

	10-07-2005 19:51									#45
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quote: Originally posted by sophist Maybe it's harder to build both workers and roads, so you're less likely to have idle workers and less likely to want to devote them to useless roads.

Do we know for sure that workers are actually in he game? To be honest, I think if they want to streamline the game and speed it up, they would just get rid of workers all together.

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	10-07-2005 20:14									#46
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I believe we've seen workers in tiles in screenshots and videos...


I hope the AI is smart enough so it mostly just connects cities (and other important tiles) in the road network. I would hate it if the AI just builds roads all over the place because it can't see what tiles are important to move to/from and what tiles are not

	11-07-2005 00:24									#47
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quote: Originally posted by Solver quote: .... but whats stopping someone from building roads everywhere with their idle workers? If they don't give a commerce bonus anymore, why would you want to do that?

I would road every tile just so that it's easier to move anywhere.

	11-07-2005 00:27									#48
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Roads should cost maintence instead, maybe something like 0.2 gold for each road

	12-07-2005 03:40									#49
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quote: Originally posted by Solver No more roads on every square . Now roads will probably be placed in a fashion that makes sense for unit movement, that is with logical routes instead of every square. Good!

I second the thumbs up. With so many tile improvements to build and with roads giving no commerce bonus the 'roads in every square syndrome' will become much rarer.

	12-07-2005 03:47									#50
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quote: Originally posted by ChrisiusMaximus Ive watched this video too and near the end Jesse mentions something he called Town permits 7mins 30 secs in, he mentioned you would have 19 town permits and that they would allow the builder types to specialise your cities Does this mean that there will be some limits to how many improvements a town can build ? he goes on to say this will allow the player to specialise cities !!

Although it is not 100% clear, it appears that you are correct and there will be 19 slots to build buildings in every city... so this is the system that replaces building maintenance. Colour me underwhelmed. Building maintenance was clearly the superior system - it had an inherent built in flexibility - for example, you could pick some cities that could do it all - at the cost of having less to spend on other cities and other matters. I am afraid that they probably chose this new system based on graphical requirements - more than 19 buildings would not 'fit' into the city square and all buildings are supposed to be visible on the main map...

This is the first change from previous versions of Civ to Civ IV that I actively dislike.

	12-07-2005 03:51									#51
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I think at a certain point you should get the road effect on every square.

	12-07-2005 03:57									#52
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Actually, Roman, I think you will find that the '19 Improvements' referred to by Jesse are in fact the 19 'TILE IMPROVEMENTS'-not city improvements-that are being added to the game. The specialisation he is referring to is based around the fact that cities will be able to focus on Agriculture or Industry-by what kind of tile improvements they build (choices which will probably impact the kinds of city improvements they build).
I think this will be a big improvement for the game!

Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.

	12-07-2005 04:00									#53
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quote: Originally posted by The_Aussie_Lurker Actually, Roman, I think you will find that the '19 Improvements' referred to by Jesse are in fact the 19 'TILE IMPROVEMENTS'-not city improvements-that are being added to the game. The specialisation he is referring to is based around the fact that cities will be able to focus on Agriculture or Industry-by what kind of tile improvements they build (choices which will probably impact the kinds of city improvements they build). I think this will be a big improvement for the game! Yours, Aussie_Lurker.

If what you say is true than it is indeed a big improvement to the game but I downloaded the video interview and the impression I got is that these are slots for buildings...

Nonetheless, I am already happy that there is an alternative interpretation - an interpretation that if true would make me much happier than my own.

	12-07-2005 04:04									#54
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Well, I have the interview downloaded-and will have to listen to it again-but after listening to it around 3 times already, I really got the impression that it was Tile Improvements he was referring to. Part of the confusion might actually be a result of the WYSIWYG interface, as it is now slightly harder to tell the difference between 'City Improvements' and 'Tile Improvements'-though I am sure we will adapt and learn how to tell the difference in short order !

Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.

	12-07-2005 04:07									#55
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quote: Originally posted by The_Aussie_Lurker Well, I have the interview downloaded-and will have to listen to it again-but after listening to it around 3 times already, I really got the impression that it was Tile Improvements he was referring to. Part of the confusion might actually be a result of the WYSIWYG interface, as it is now slightly harder to tell the difference between 'City Improvements' and 'Tile Improvements'-though I am sure we will adapt and learn how to tell the difference in short order ! Yours, Aussie_Lurker.

Yes!!! You were correct. I listened to the interview again and he does specifically say 19 tile improvements. This is very good news.

	14-07-2005 07:41									#56
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For what i've been reading, the improved part of cIV is more like a brand new way to do things. :d:

cIV is gonna be a milestone in CIV history, like CIV II was to CIV I.

Because CIV III the only good stuff it had was culture and borders (which are one thing, basically).

	14-07-2005 08:59									#57
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quote: Originally posted by Kuciwalker I think at a certain point you should get the road effect on every square.

Thats a good idea. Within two squares of a city at the very least.

	14-07-2005 15:01									#58
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Given the scale of Civ, not having roads everywhere by industrial times would be preposterous.

Can't see any benefit whatsoever in removing building maintenance.

	17-07-2005 12:26									#59
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quote: Originally posted by Last Conformist Given the scale of Civ, not having roads everywhere by industrial times would be preposterous.

Only near or between population centers.
(though having a road on Mt Everest would make the climbing a bit easier. )

	17-07-2005 23:22									#60
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quote: Only near or between population centers.

Granted. But unless they change the settlement incitaments, everywhere is gonna be near a population centre by then.