12-07-2005 12:06									#121
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I can't wait till they strip his Order of Canada.

Not because he's now a convicted criminal, but because he's an intolerable sack of ****.

	12-07-2005 12:06									#122
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quote: Originally posted by KrazyHorse I'm one of the leftmost Canadians around, but I'm on your side

I said THESE Canadians... I was speaking of the censorship whores .

	12-07-2005 12:07									#123
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quote: Originally posted by KrazyHorse That's what I said. But I don't believe that we should be prohibiting simple hate speech (which requires no mention of violence AFAIK)

Yes it does:

quote: Every one who, by communicating statements in any public place, incites hatred against any identifiable group where such incitement is likely to lead to a breach of the peace is guilty of...

The act has to be both public and liable to lead to violence.

	12-07-2005 12:08									#124
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quote: Originally posted by KrazyHorse That's what I said. But I don't believe that we should be prohibiting simple hate speech (which requires no mention of violence AFAIK)

Oh, and fyi, the ACLU would be arguing that this dude's statement (about Hitler frying and all that) is protected under the US Constitution and is NOT an incitement to violence. And he'd win in the US. Our incitement to violence goes well beyond this... though perhaps that's a definitional issue.

	12-07-2005 12:10									#125
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quote: Originally posted by KrazyHorse I can't wait till they strip his Order of Canada. Not because he's now a convicted criminal, but because he's an intolerable sack of ****.

Already done. The GG signed the papers from the sick bed.

He will most likely keep the pin. I doubt they will send in the sheriff to seize it.

	12-07-2005 12:12									#126
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui Oh, and fyi, the ACLU would be arguing that this dude's statement (about Hitler frying and all that) is protected under the US Constitution and is NOT an incitement to violence. And he'd win in the US. Our incitement to violence goes well beyond this... though perhaps that's a definitional issue.

And neither Toronto nor London is subject to your Constitution. We have our own, thank you very much.

	12-07-2005 12:13									#127
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither Yes it does: quote: Every one who, by communicating statements in any public place, incites hatred against any identifiable group where such incitement is likely to lead to a breach of the peace is guilty of... The act has to be both public and liable to lead to violence.

It has to be "liable to lead to violence", yet does not have to make any mention of violence.

	12-07-2005 12:13									#128
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither Already done. The GG signed the papers from the sick bed. He will most likely keep the pin. I doubt they will send in the sheriff to seize it.

Nice

	12-07-2005 12:15									#129
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quote: Originally posted by KrazyHorse It has to be "liable to lead to violence", yet does not have to make any mention of violence.

Frying six million people as if they were diseased rats is not a reference to violence?

	12-07-2005 12:19									#130
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I just said that I believe that Ahenakew should be criminally liable for what he said

On the other hand, I believe that the law is worded in such a way that even those who do not mention violent acts are also criminally liable, which in my opinion is a mistake.

	12-07-2005 12:21									#131
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I disagree with your belief.

It quite clearly states breach of the peace.

You might pay attention to how rare these prosecutions are.

	12-07-2005 12:22									#132
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It reminds me of Quebec's Padlock Law, where all writings by communists were to be seized and the locations they were found in padlocked by the government.

The reasoning was based on the fact that communists incited violence against the ruling order.

The real problem lay in the fact that it was also held that publications which did not make any mention of violence could be deemed communist.

So communist writings were banned because they promoted violence, yet it was not necessary for writing to contain any mention of violence to be considered communist.

	12-07-2005 12:23									#133
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It also has to be a 'public' statement.

This twerp would even have got off after his apology, had he not repeated the slander to other reporters after that date.

	12-07-2005 12:24									#134
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Three pages of hate speech debate and no mention of Demesos?

	12-07-2005 12:25									#135
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither I disagree with your belief. It quite clearly states breach of the peace. You might pay attention to how rare these prosecutions are.

It states that there must be a likelihood that they will lead to a breach of the peace, not that they praise or even mention breaches of the peace.

In other words, if I say that black people are violent and evil and somebody listens to me and goes out and kills black people then I will be criminally liable under this law.

	12-07-2005 12:26									#136
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quote: Originally posted by KrazyHorse It reminds me of Quebec's Padlock Law, where all writings by communists were to be seized and the locations they were found in padlocked by the government. The reasoning was based on the fact that communists incited violence against the ruling order. The real problem lay in the fact that it was also held that publications which did not make any mention of violence could be deemed communist. So communist writings were banned because they promoted violence, yet it was not necessary for writing to contain any mention of violence to be considered violence.

Fortunately, we are not dealing with such a law, and if we were, we now have a court and a Charter to shut such crap down.

If the hate laws can be struck down at the SCoC, I will be very interested in reading that decision.

	12-07-2005 12:26									#137
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quote: And neither Toronto nor London is subject to your Constitution. We have our own, thank you very much.

Oh arrogant Canadians who think everyone is speaking about them. The inferiority complex can be quite amusing though. Or did you not see "And he'd win in the US"?

	12-07-2005 12:27									#138
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Actually, Imran, the point was germane....

	12-07-2005 12:29									#139
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui quote: And neither Toronto nor London is subject to your Constitution. We have our own, thank you very much. Oh arrogant Canadians who think everyone is speaking about them. The inferiority complex can be quite amusing though. Or did you not see "And he'd win in the US"?

And just what the hell does the price of tea in Boston have to do with justice in Toronto?

	12-07-2005 12:30									#140
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KH: Hey, you were the one who said you agreed with the ACLU ("on your side")

	12-07-2005 12:31									#141
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither And just what the hell does the price of tea in Boston have to do with justice in Toronto?

Cause KH said he was on the ACLU's side... hence making it relevent. It isn't the CCLU.

	12-07-2005 12:33									#142
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Huh?

That's one hell of a stretch, Imran.

From this and the other thread I can see that logic isn't a skill in much demand among lawyers...

	12-07-2005 12:36									#143
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui At the very least we know these Canadians share at least one thing in common with far right Republicans.... a disapproval of the platform of the ACLU

(Next post)

quote: Originally posted by Krazyhorse I'm one of the leftmost Canadians around, but I'm on your side

I can see that reading isn't a skill in much demand among physcists .

	12-07-2005 12:38									#144
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Nope. It's still you that's wrong.

	12-07-2005 12:39									#145
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Shown the proof and KH can't deny... typical. Damn that lack of reading skills they teach you physicists.

	12-07-2005 12:41									#146
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Made a sig for you, Imran:

quote: ^Warning: may contain gibberish^

	12-07-2005 12:42									#147
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Digging a deeper hole for you I see.

Though you have given yourself a nice self-PWNage.

	12-07-2005 12:45									#148
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Imran "Non Sequitur" Siddiqui...

	12-07-2005 12:45									#149
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I even wrote that in pidgin latin so a lawyer like you could understand it...

	12-07-2005 12:46									#150
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I see. Well, yes, I feel I know that in the US this twerp would have been free to run off and climb up on the stage right next to the Grand Dragon.

Perhaps we've looked not just at Europe, but also much closer to us and within ourselves, and we've decided that we do not wish to have a society where lynching would be tolerated, and anything that could lead to lynching, or burning synagoges (which we don't need you for an example of) should be stamped out like the weed it is.

I understand where Americans come from on these issues. When Jim Keegstra was being prosecuted (for the third time cause they couldn't get lucky the first two) I very nearly blew a gasket of righteousness over the right to free speech and the principle of double jeopardy.

However, I stewed on it for a while. And then I began to notice the crimes of hate that were being perpetrated on Jewish, Homosexual, and yes, Aboriginal people. I decided that a civil society is more important than one in which the KKK, or the NSDAP is free to bully, murder, and take over.

Call me a coward if you wish. For I have looked into the throat of the US Constitution and I have found it lacking in so far as I would like to see a society be managed.

Last edited by notyoueither on 12-07-2005 at 13:35