12-07-2005 08:28									#31
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quote: Originally posted by KrazyHorse No, the problem is that even two "experts" are going to disagree about all that ****. Because the definition is vague.

No "expert" is going to say the US and Puerto Rico are the same nation. Especially when it is still a protectorate.

	12-07-2005 08:31									#32
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui No "expert" is going to say the US and Puerto Rico are the same nation. Especially when it is still a protectorate.

Good thing I didn't claim that the disagreement was going to be that.

	12-07-2005 08:34									#33
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Even in distinguishing between Caribbean nations the definitions lead to results that a great majority accept. You always have contrarians, but then you have then in every field, even those in fields with the definitions are key... like math.

You do realize the defintions are written down and called a 'defintion', right?

	12-07-2005 08:36									#34
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quote: but then you have then in every field, even those in fields with the definitions are key... like math

No you don't



If there is an accepted math definition then no serious mathematicians will disagree over whether an entity fits that definition. Because math definitions are precise. Even as far as social sciences goes, the definition of "nation" is imprecise.

	12-07-2005 08:39									#35
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Is 'ethnicity' imprecise as well now?

	12-07-2005 08:39									#36
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If mathematicians disagree on something like that then they disagree over what the definition should be, not how well an entity fits a given definition

	12-07-2005 08:40									#37
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui Is 'ethnicity' imprecise as well now?

Yes.

	12-07-2005 08:46									#38
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quote: If there is an accepted math definition then no serious mathematicians will disagree over whether an entity fits that definition.

Isn't some of advanced math based on mathematicians trying to prove than an entity does not fit a defintion it should? Thereby meaning a changing of the defintion?

The best way to argue about a definition is to prove that an entity that should qualify in the defintion doesn't.

	12-07-2005 08:50									#39
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui Isn't some of advanced math based on mathematicians trying to prove than an entity does not fit a defintion it should? Thereby meaning a changing of the defintion?

no. not really. quibbling over definitions is rightly considered a waste of time

quote: The best way to argue about a definition is to prove that an entity that should qualify in the defintion doesn't.

And again, it's arguing over a definition

NOT arguing over whether an entity fits a set definition

Holy ****, Imran, I've said the same thing 4 times now.

There's a difference between arguing about what a definition should be and arguing about whether something fits a given definition.

The latter is an indication that the definition is imprecise. The former is not.

	12-07-2005 08:52									#40
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If there is no rigorous way to test whether something fits a definition then the definition is imprecise (by definition),

If two different mathmeaticians can legitimately claim "X is not a Y" and "X is a Y" then you have a real ****ing problem.

	12-07-2005 08:55									#41
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quote: And again, it's arguing over a definition NOT arguing over whether an entity fits a set definition

Of course it is. Arguing over whether the entity actually fits the defintion leads to re-evaluating the defintion. How else do you prove a definition is incorrect?

Oh, and btw, technical and precise aren't synonyms.

	12-07-2005 08:57									#42
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KH, if we didn't have such pointless sh*t like this to argue about, all of the political science degree people will be working at McDonalds.

Oh, wait...

	12-07-2005 09:01									#43
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Btw, KH, if someone came up to you and said there is no French nation, would you say to him that he might be right because there is no technical definition of nationality?

	12-07-2005 09:44									#44
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Quebec is not its own nation! They are subordinates.

	12-07-2005 09:53									#45
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui Btw, KH, if someone came up to you and said there is no French nation, would you say to him that he might be right because there is no technical definition of nationality?

There is a definition of "nation". The definition, like all others, can be argued upon, just like you can argue about the definition of murder, or theft, whatever.

	12-07-2005 11:02									#46
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui quote: And again, it's arguing over a definition NOT arguing over whether an entity fits a set definition Of course it is. Arguing over whether the entity actually fits the defintion leads to re-evaluating the defintion. How else do you prove a definition is incorrect? Oh, and btw, technical and precise aren't synonyms.

You're a ****ing muppet.

	12-07-2005 11:03									#47
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui Btw, KH, if someone came up to you and said there is no French nation, would you say to him that he might be right because there is no technical definition of nationality?

No, I would say that he was probably being unreasonable, but that I couldn't really "prove" him wrong in any meaningful sense of the word.

	12-07-2005 11:20									#48
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If you've ever known Puerto Ricans, you would understand that they can't figure this stuff out, either.

	12-07-2005 11:26									#49
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quote: Originally posted by DeathByTheSword quote: Andruw Jones - Netherlands

I can't believe you don't know your country's illustrious baseball heritage.

	12-07-2005 11:34									#50
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Pro baseball is a really silly phenomenon.

	12-07-2005 11:41									#51
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You see. That's the attitude that gave Washington the Nationals.

Carry on.

	12-07-2005 11:41									#52
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Suckas...

	12-07-2005 11:42									#53
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I should say, that's what gave Washington the FIRST PLACE Nationals.

	12-07-2005 11:44									#54
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Is it still baseball?

Then carry on.

Well, at least Washington now has 2.5 professional sports teams...

	12-07-2005 11:47									#55
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Hmmm...

Nationals
Wizards
Mystics
D.C. United
Redskins
[The team in the sport that cannot be mentioned currently]

	12-07-2005 11:48									#56
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Forgot about the Wizards.

3.5

	12-07-2005 11:52									#57
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Hey, the Mystics pack in the fans. Or are women now only half people? Misogynist.

	12-07-2005 11:55									#58
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If a woman can compete in the men's league then she should be considered a professional.

Otherwise she's just a proficient amateur...

	12-07-2005 11:56									#59
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It's like if midget basketball were a "professional" sport...

	12-07-2005 11:57									#60
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quote: Originally posted by DanS Hey, the Mystics pack in the fans. Or are women now only half people? Misogynist.

I'm giving the Mystics nothing.

Women are chattel...