02-08-2005 03:47									#31
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quote: Originally posted by Agathon Another tyrant dies. Good job.

BASICALLY, yeah.

His son is a moderate my ass. His son allows the oppresion of woman to go on under his nose besides all the ties to terrorism we can't proove, THAT alone is enough.

May the new king's reign be short.

	02-08-2005 03:54									#32
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It will, as will be most of his successors. What comes after all 40 guys are through, come next spring?

	02-08-2005 04:02									#33
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Who would think that a conservative Islamic kingdom would fund conservative Islamic schools.

Shocking, just shocking.

The problem is not that KSA funds right-wing religious schools, even ones that extol the singular correctness of Islam (its called right of religion). The problem is that the other Muslims states into which they fund schools lack alternative school systems, which is more a problem with those specific states.

Fahd was hardly a tyrannt, even if the leader or a very reactionary regime.

	02-08-2005 04:05									#34
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A bit like Petain, no?

	02-08-2005 04:43									#35
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Petain wasn't a tyrant.

	02-08-2005 05:28									#36
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GePap likes fascists and nazis.

	02-08-2005 06:07									#37
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I don't like you.

Ecthy proven so wrong...

Last edited by GePap on 03-08-2005 at 04:03

	02-08-2005 07:28									#38
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Hey, the day he died crude oil prices hit an all time high. I'll bet he died happy. The kids probably did it just to please the old man.

	02-08-2005 19:23									#39
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quote: Originally posted by GePap Who would think that a conservative Islamic kingdom would fund conservative Islamic schools. Shocking, just shocking.

Funds schools abroad. all over the world. In places where their brand of Islam is distinctly foreign. Missionizing, displacing local muslim customs and variants. Hardly the no brainer you imply.

and, shocking or not, it seems to me its a bad thing.

	02-08-2005 19:24									#40
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quote: Originally posted by GePap The problem is that the other Muslims states into which they fund schools lack alternative school systems, which is more a problem with those specific states..

Er, GE? Theres an "Islamic Saudi Academy" a few miles from where I live. And believe me, Fairfax County has an excellent school system.


(and yes, theres a jewish day school not far away from the ISA. which doesnt receive ANY foreign funding)

	02-08-2005 19:28									#41
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quote: Originally posted by Vesayen BASICALLY, yeah. His son is a moderate my ass. His son allows the oppresion of woman to go on under his nose besides all the ties to terrorism we can't proove, THAT alone is enough. May the new king's reign be short.

ves - all ive heard, is that the alleged ties to terrorism are associated with the Sudeiri seven (prince Sultan, Prince Nayef, and their brothers) not with Prince Abdullah, whose rival they are. and of course none of these are Fahds sons, they are half brothers, IIUC. sons of Ibn Saud, by different wives. Though the sons of a particular wife tend to hang together (like the Sudeiri seven, for ex) the sons of a particular wife also tend to have support from the tribe that that wife came from.

	02-08-2005 19:31									#42
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quote: Originally posted by Vesayen May the new king's reign be short.

got to disagree. If Abdullah dies, the throne goes to Prince Sultan, who is probably worse.

	03-08-2005 04:02									#43
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quote: Originally posted by lord of the mark Funds schools abroad. all over the world. In places where their brand of Islam is distinctly foreign. Missionizing, displacing local muslim customs and variants. Hardly the no brainer you imply. and, shocking or not, it seems to me its a bad thing.

Its called freedom of religion. Unlike Judaism (which is not universalistic) Christianity and Islam do state they apply to everyone, so of course they missionize.

You object to mizzionisation? To the marketplace of religious ideas?

	03-08-2005 18:29									#44
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quote: Originally posted by GePap Its called freedom of religion. Unlike Judaism (which is not universalistic) Christianity and Islam do state they apply to everyone, so of course they missionize. You object to mizzionisation? To the marketplace of religious ideas?

The issue here isnt so much Muslims trying to spread Islam to non-muslims. Its Wahabis trying to spread Wahabism among non-Wahabi Muslims. Pulling Muslims both from local (often Sufi) traditions, and from liberalizing tendencies, in the direction of a fundamentalism that is deeply hostile to liberal and democratic principles, and that encourages hatred of christians and Jews.

Now is that covered by the first amendment in the US? Yup, Ive never advocated closing all Wahabi institutions in the US.

But when a STATE, a state we support and have a "postive" relationship with, funds such institutions worldwide, in ways that aggravate international problems, that is a proper concern for bilateral relations.

Suppose the US govt were spending billions of dollars to fund evangelical churches and schools in Europe. And suppose in those schools hatred for Jews, Muslims, and agnostics was taught. And that followers of all other forms of Christianity were denounced as apostates, worthy of death. Would that not be a proper issue for European govts to raise with the govt of the US? Especially if practitioners of a related form evangelical Christianity had recently commited acts of terrorism around the world?

	03-08-2005 18:32									#45
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marketplace of ideas? Somewhere out in the back of beyond in Pakistan, say, where any non-muslim, or for that matter, a Shia or Amadi muslim, would take their life in their hands to go missionize, and the marketplace is in the hands of some local imam in a decaying mosque, and the Wahabis come in and build a brand new mosque, and a brand new school, and start missionizing Wahabism? This is a marketplace?

	03-08-2005 21:23									#46
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Long live the King!

Abdullah is now the King.