02-08-2005 02:52									#31
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Refresh my memory, how exactly does waiting until recess allow the president to appoint ambassadors without Congressional approval?

	02-08-2005 05:57									#32
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quote: And this is precisely the attitude we're talking about.

So you're mad at Bush for engaging in politics?

quote: but remember, all he had to do to get Bolton confirmed was supply some paperwork, you know, the government's paperwork

Yeah, and violate the concept of executive privilege in the process. The Democrats obviously couldn't find much wrong with Bolton, as their argument ended up being "he's mean!" and "Bush won't give us documents no other President in history would give us!" I don't really find those to be charges worth filibustering over, but then again I don't knee-jerkedly oppose anything and everything President Bush tries to do.

quote: If Bush appoints a new deputy postmaster general, all we'll hear is "This guy will damage our postal reputation across the globe, just wait and see."

Indeed.

	02-08-2005 06:05									#33
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quote: Originally posted by Dr Strangelove Refresh my memory, how exactly does waiting until recess allow the president to appoint ambassadors without Congressional approval?

The president has the power to fill any position if Congress is in recess and in theoy is unable to do so. The person then gets one year in office until they must be approved by the Congress.

as a provision it makes sense in emergency situations, but most of the time its just a way fro the President to put someone in they can;t get through Congress.

	02-08-2005 06:06									#34
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quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten but then again I don't knee-jerkedly oppose anything and everything President Bush tries to do.

Correct. You knee-jerkedly support anything he tries to do.

	02-08-2005 06:07									#35
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quote: but most of the time its just a way fro the President to put someone in they can;t get through Congress.

I doubt that, given that Bush has already made 107 recess appointments and Clinton made 140 in his two terms. Seems like a pretty common way to appoint people, whether they can get past Congress or not.

	02-08-2005 06:08									#36
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quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten quote: but most of the time its just a way fro the President to put someone in they can;t get through Congress. I doubt that, given that Bush has already made 107 recess appointments and Clinton made 140 in his two terms. Seems like a pretty common way to appoint people, whether they can get past Congress or not.

You mean like judges to lower courts that the President would rather just sail through? I bet you that has been the vast bulk of said nominations.

	02-08-2005 06:09									#37
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quote: Originally posted by Winston Whatever happened to "I strongly disagree with this man."? Nowadays, it's invariably "He'll damage our diplomatic reputation! Worldwide, I tells ya. OMGomg"

Seeing how we just sent someone as UN Ambassador that has said he doesn't believe in the UN may indeed damage our diplomatic repuation... you know as further solidifying that all the Bush administration wants to do to the world is give them a big middle finger?

quote: originally posted by GePap but most of the time its just a way fro the President to put someone in they can;t get through Congress.

Bingo. It's a way to sidestep Congress.

	02-08-2005 06:18									#38
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It was the same argument being used over and over against Bush himself during the campaign. "He'll ruin our reputation abroad... Pick our guy, because he'll listen to world opinion." Fortunately, the American voters got the last say in that matter, they didn't buy it.

Politicians should stick to arguments of political differences, and if the can't do that properly, keep quiet.

	02-08-2005 06:23									#39
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quote: Originally posted by Winston It was the same argument being used over and over against Bush himself during the campaign. "He'll ruin our reputation abroad... Pick our guy, because he'll listen to world opinion." Fortunately, the American voters got the last say in that matter, they didn't buy it. Politicians should stick to arguments of political discourse, and if the can't do that properly, keep quiet.

I would think the nominee for UN AMBASSADOR being someone who is anti-UN and could damage our already crap reputation even worse is definetly within the politcal discourse and is definetly a valid critique.

	02-08-2005 06:27									#40
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The only realistic way for an ambassador of alienating other countries, damaging U.S. reputation, is by the political stand he'll be taking, representing the administration he was appointed by.

The only valid criticism would be of those policies, not this crap hysteria being wiped up everytime your chief executive picks up the phone...

	02-08-2005 06:31									#41
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quote: Originally posted by Winston The only realistic way for an ambassador of alienating other countries, damaging U.S. reputation, is by the political stand he'll be taking, representing the administration he was appointed by. The only valid criticism would be of those policies, not this crap hysteria being wiped up everytime your chief executive picks up the phone...

Hmmmm, lets see the President nominates a person as Ambassador to the UN who is anti-UN and basically thinks it shouldn't exist. What message do you think that the President is sending with that appointment?

If you think that simply his nomination isn't alienating enough, then you've been smoking too much weed.

It'd be like sending over an Ambassador of France who hates the French and wishes they were overrun by the Germans. If you don't think the French would be a bit peeved, you are drinking the kool aid.

	02-08-2005 06:34									#42
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But Imran... the kool-aid of the Republican Party is remarkably tasty. In fact, it seems drenched in fine alcohol.

Here, won't you have some?

	02-08-2005 06:37									#43
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So, you insist on not wanting to see how he'll be managing the position. Great.

Also, I get the feeling Bolton may actually mirror the administration's present general view of the U.N. pretty well. What an outrage, appointing a guy like that!

	02-08-2005 06:37									#44
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quote: Originally posted by Winston It was the same argument being used over and over against Bush himself during the campaign. "He'll ruin our reputation abroad... Pick our guy, because he'll listen to world opinion." Fortunately, the American voters got the last say in that matter, they didn't buy it.

It's not like the international reputation of the US has gone up after that.

	02-08-2005 06:41									#45
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What a circus we'd have if countries started electing political leaders based on some fuzzy concept of (alleged) world opinion.

It's just another trick. The Kerry trick - fitting, since it didn't work.

	02-08-2005 06:47									#46
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Wow... that kool aid is pretty think, Q^3. Apparently Winston seems to think that countries don't nominate ambassadors based on the opinion of those countries where he is to serve and that nominating an ambassador that would piss off the country or organization he is assigned to is generally seen by most countries of the world to be a bad thing.

	02-08-2005 06:53									#47
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Yeah, Imran. It's pretty good ****. I think I'm going to order it at the ACS next time. Think you could be the DD for me then?

(Designated Driver, not DinoDoc. )

	02-08-2005 06:55									#48
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Then why not let the U.N. decide who to appoint, so you get someone who won't piss them off too much.

	02-08-2005 06:59									#49
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quote: Originally posted by Q Cubed Yeah, Imran. It's pretty good ****. I think I'm going to order it at the ACS next time. Think you could be the DD for me then? (Designated Driver, not DinoDoc. )

I'll be both

	02-08-2005 07:00									#50
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quote: Originally posted by Winston Then why not let the U.N. decide who to appoint, so you get someone who won't piss them off too much.

Or better yet... The US Congress!

	02-08-2005 08:00									#51
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Drake - I guess I made that silly quote for no reason. "By the people, for the people, of the people." You, of all people, should see your inconsistancy of quoting "executive priviledge". It isn't in that thar constitution.

However, let's grant your premise. Note - however, it is priveledge, not a right per se. Then the Democrats can say fine, you sit on your privelidge, we sit on the nomination. So he gets blocked. Also remember that the purpose behind recess appointments was that it was added to the constituion in the days of horse and buggies. You know, to make sure that the President could get someone appointed when Congress was in recess, which could be much longer than it is today. It's also been abused from the get-go, so Bush is in fine company - yep, with Clinton, you favorite President.

Oh, and if world opinion is so unimportant - ask the US Soldiers dying over there daily, while the Bush adminstration provides new recruits for the Jihadists day after day with it's appallingly stupid and arrogant policies. Or how we have so many strong countries in the Alliance of the Willing, or whatever they call it. If we want to be a Superpower, remember than world opinion is critically important. Daddy Bush, who I voted for the first time, did a very good job on that (I just found what he did to the Kurds intolerable - good Realpolitik, given Turkey, but that's an entirely different issue).

So keep repeating the mantra World Opinion makes no difference. Like the Bush administration, you if you close your eyes and repeat it three times, it will come true.

	02-08-2005 08:10									#52
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The people elected him less than 9 months ago to continue the policies he laid out in his first term. Are you saying he should now do a complete reversal and all of a sudden let himself be governed by "world opinion" - a large chunk of said world having nothing in common with the United States and its way of life?

That's certainly taking popular representation to a whole new level.

	02-08-2005 09:03									#53
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quote: Originally posted by Winston The people elected him less than 9 months ago to continue the policies he laid out in his first term. Are you saying he should now do a complete reversal and all of a sudden let himself be governed by "world opinion" - a large chunk of said world having nothing in common with the United States and its way of life? That's certainly taking popular representation to a whole new level.

Its trully sad that you think Bush's narrow re-election last year in itself justifies making an ******* UN ambassador, as opposed to plenty of non-*******s he could have chosen.

	02-08-2005 09:12									#54
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No Winston - I am saying he shouldn't keep doing these things that make a goodly portion of the world hostile to us, while providing grist for the anti-US propoganda mills. It's like my point about the Gonzales memos - f**k the argument about whether they were right or wrong (I do believe that is important, but this is a much more germane point) putting it in writing was STUPID. It would eventually leak, and do tremendous harm to our reputation. This is more of the same. Much less important, but still part of the entire attitude.

Most Americans DID NOT elect him to continue the policies of his first term. A small majority did vote for him, largely over security scares and laws to impose their religious views on those who do not share them, i.e. homosexuals are evil/bad. Also, he got elected because the Democrats were morons and have not learned many Americans vote on image, not issues, and that Karl Rove is a genius on the image bit. Domestically. The problem is that it is playing like crap abroad - you know, overseas where we are fighting a war, buying our oil, hell buying alot of our goods. And where American soldiers are dying. "Bring them on." Idiot.

Ask the Serbians if image isn't important, after the Croats bounced their butts in that category. Our image is what helps us get targetted by Moslem extremists - if you don't think that's important, let's look at 9-11. Why was the US targeted? Note all those policies did not start with Bush Jr., and both Bush Sr. and Clinton can take some of the blame. Reagan, for all I dislike much of what he did, had a fine command of public relations, both here and abroad. Contrast the two Republican administrations, and tell me who had better relations with the rest of the world.

	02-08-2005 09:13									#55
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The question is, if Bolton is such a fine choice, why did Congress block his nomination? Not just the Dems, mind you, Republicans too.

	02-08-2005 12:33									#56
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quote: Originally posted by Winston Also, I get the feeling Bolton may actually mirror the administration's present general view of the U.N. pretty well. What an outrage, appointing a guy like that!

Indeed, and this is only the first step. The next thing you know, Bush might be appointing conservatives to the Supreme Court! I sure hope the Dems will do everything in their power to delay the nominations of those right-wing extremist Nazis if Bush does engage in such an unforseen abuse of powerâ„¢.

	02-08-2005 12:35									#57
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quote: Drake - I guess I made that silly quote for no reason. "By the people, for the people, of the people." You, of all people, should see your inconsistancy of quoting "executive priviledge". It isn't in that thar constitution.

Neither is the filibuster, slick...

quote: Oh, and if world opinion is so unimportant - ask the US Soldiers dying over there daily, while the Bush adminstration provides new recruits for the Jihadists day after day with it's appallingly stupid and arrogant policies.

The last poll I saw showed a roughly 70% level of support for Bush's policies and the war in Iraq from US soldiers serving there. Maybe you're the one who should be listening to what they think...

quote: So keep repeating the mantra World Opinion makes no difference.

I don't believe I ever said that.

	02-08-2005 13:21									#58
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quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten Bush appointed Bolton to get rid of an unpopular but highly ranked diplomat by placing him in a dead-end position where he might at least do some good by shaking up a corrupt UN. Nothing more, nothing less.

Might be something to that. Bolton is no longer responsible for Korean peninsula issues and surprise, surprise the 6 party talks start making progress.

Does anyone else here think he looks like a walrus?

	02-08-2005 13:34									#59
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quote: Originally posted by Alexander's Horse Does anyone else here think he looks like a walrus?

Yep. The true outrage in all this is Bolton's moustache.

	02-08-2005 13:58									#60
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i bet John Bolton is a closet neo-con