14-08-2005 08:10									#31
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"try some older music if you want quality...

...Journey"

This was a mistake right?

	14-08-2005 08:43									#32
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He's in Kansas. Cut him some slack.

	14-08-2005 08:50									#33
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quote: Originally posted by mrmitchell "try some older music if you want quality... ...Journey" This was a mistake right?

The band or his recommendation?

	14-08-2005 08:55									#34
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Don't stop believin'

	14-08-2005 09:35									#35
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quote: Originally posted by Berzerker Rush Pink Floyd Kansas Moody Blues Yes Supertramp Triumph Asia Journey Bruce Springsteen (watching him right now on PBS) etc......

sucks
sucks
sucks
sucks
sucks
sucks
sucks
sucks
sucks
sucks

	14-08-2005 12:14									#36
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don't listen to sava, he has terrible taste in music

Rush: Very good
Pink Floyd: beyond good- they're great
Kansas- they only have 2 good songs, but they are damn good songs
Moody Blues- I think they have 1 good song. that's it
Yes- they have 2 good songs, that's it
Supertramp had some good songs. But only the radio songs are any good. But they had about 5 or 6 that are really good

Triumph the insult comic dog. He's hilarious.

Asia- another band with 2 hits. I sampled other songs from them. They weren't good

Journey: They have about 12 hits. And they are all damn good songs. But all their non-hits aren't very good.

Bruce Springsteen. I liked him as a kid. But his songs don't hold up well. but Rage Against the Machine does a real cool cover song of a Bruce Springsteen song: Ghost of Tom Joad. But I do really love the Bruce Springsteen song: I'm on Fire. Something about that song that goes right down to the core

	14-08-2005 12:17									#37
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Does anyone know any experimental metal music?

I love listening too the jazz station in Vegas on saturday nights. They play what they call experimental jazz. I've heard some amazing stuff. I still like metal better than jazz. But some of the stuff I have heard on the experimental jazz segment blows away even my most favourite heavy metal song.

The problem with metal is there is no innovation anymore. Every band sounds the same. The 80's were the best time for heavy metal. Many new genres came about, and people weren't afraid to experiment.

There probably are some cool bands with a different sound, but I may not have heard of them. As usually just the bands with the normal metal sound make the metal radio stations I've listened to over the years. So if you guys know any band who has a unique (and cool) sound but aren't popular, point them out. I'll give them a try.

It was easy to hear cool bands when I was a teenager. As when you are in the "scene" you exchange cassette tapes and copy them with dual cassette players. Those were the days. In fact I still have this cassette that has some cool metal songs. Even though the sound quality on the cassette tape sucks, those songs are still amazing. Early 80's metal rules!

	14-08-2005 14:18									#38
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Has anybody listened to Cruachan. They are making some sort of celtic metal. Are they any good?

	14-08-2005 19:09									#39
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quote: Originally posted by Nikolai Try some of the old guys, like Stryper, Petra. I don't know who this "Disturbed" is, but take Stryper for example; they have both hard rock and more gentler songs.

I know you're a young'un, but c'mon.

0.1/10

	14-08-2005 19:11									#40
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quote: Originally posted by SlowwHand Ok, ok. I know this isn't the same,but this guy is 13. Started at 11. Currently on tour with John Mayall. http://www.ericsteckel.com/

Get thee behind me satan!

0.001/10

	14-08-2005 19:13									#41
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quote: Originally posted by mrmitchell The guys here introduced me to Opeth and they're coming out with a new CD on the 30th. Excellent music. You picked up American Idiot? Do you have earlier Green Day?

Opeth, another scandinavian black metal band. After my surprise with Dimmu Borgir, I'll have to have a look. I guess these bands result from the Malmsteen effect combined with an Ace of Base-Abba backlash.

Yes, I own earlier Green Day stuff but I had to get over their being labelled 'punk' first (the Clash they're not).

	14-08-2005 19:21									#42
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quote: Originally posted by Berzerker New music sucks, try some older music if you want quality Rush Pink Floyd Kansas Moody Blues Yes Supertramp Triumph Asia Journey Bruce Springsteen (watching him right now on PBS) etc......

The problem is that I already own everything by those bands (and the etc's) that I want. Thats the music of my teens and early 20's. Hell, lately I've even been picking up music from that time that I dont listen to just cos I have no new bands to test out (hence this thread).

	14-08-2005 19:26									#43
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quote: Originally posted by Sir Og Has anybody listened to Cruachan. They are making some sort of celtic metal. Are they any good?

Never heard of them. Celtic metal! My first thought was to laugh, but why not? If you can mix classical orchestra sounds with metal....

Plus, I like the Pogues who are kinda celtic-punk.

	14-08-2005 19:32									#44
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quote: Originally posted by Dis Does anyone know any experimental metal music? I love listening too the jazz station in Vegas on saturday nights. They play what they call experimental jazz. I've heard some amazing stuff. I still like metal better than jazz. But some of the stuff I have heard on the experimental jazz segment blows away even my most favourite heavy metal song. The problem with metal is there is no innovation anymore. Every band sounds the same. The 80's were the best time for heavy metal. Many new genres came about, and people weren't afraid to experiment. There probably are some cool bands with a different sound, but I may not have heard of them. As usually just the bands with the normal metal sound make the metal radio stations I've listened to over the years. So if you guys know any band who has a unique (and cool) sound but aren't popular, point them out. I'll give them a try. It was easy to hear cool bands when I was a teenager. As when you are in the "scene" you exchange cassette tapes and copy them with dual cassette players. Those were the days. In fact I still have this cassette that has some cool metal songs. Even though the sound quality on the cassette tape sucks, those songs are still amazing. Early 80's metal rules!

Its surprising you dont like Yes since most of their best stuff (Relayer, Close to the Edge) was very similar to experimental jazz.

I sound like a broken record, but if you havent listened to Dimmu Borgir - give them a try.

	15-08-2005 00:59									#45
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I could give yes another listen. I admit I'm actually not familiar with any of their music aside from their radio hits. Every once in a while I'll download songs at random to see if they have some gems that never made it to the radio. I did that with Asia, and I didn't care for their non radio hits. But I'll try that with Yes sometime at a later date.

	15-08-2005 01:13									#46
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SpencerH you might give Blind Guardian a try. They are not very close to Dimmu Borgir but very good still.

And if you were a sucker for female vocals like me you should listen to Nightwish, After Forever, Within Temptation, Leaves' Eyes.

	15-08-2005 15:09									#47
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Towering Inferno: Kaddish

quote: Towering Inferno's 'Kaddish' has slowly gathered acclaim as one of the most interesting rock-influenced experimental recordings of the mid-'90s; Brian Eno, for instance, has referred to it as the most frightening record he's ever heard. Towering Inferno are the British duo of Richard Wolfson and Andy Saunders, who are principally responsible for the composition of 'Kaddish' (with some additional material from other sources), and also for much of the programming, keyboards, and guitars. British prog-rock vets Elton Dean and John Marshall (ex-Soft Machine) and Chris Cutler, as well as Hungarian folk singer Marta Sebestyen, also add important contributions to this 75-minute concept album of sorts, inspired by the horrors of the Holocaust. Rabbinical chants, hard rock/heavy metal guitar, ambient synthesizer, and Eastern European folk singing are all elements of an ambitious palette which gets its disturbing message across without sounding pedantic. Wolfson and Saunders have presented 'Kaddish' as a mixed-media performance as well; originally released in 1994, it was picked up by Island for larger distribution, and issued in the U.S. in 1996. Wolfson and Saunders have something quite different in mind for their next project, which they described in the British magazine Record Collector as "a light-hearted, fun, post-rave kind of B-movie affair." ~ Richie Unterberger, All Music Guide

http://www.mp3.com/Towering-Inferno...49/summary.html

	15-08-2005 16:12									#48
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quote: Originally posted by Dis I could give yes another listen. I admit I'm actually not familiar with any of their music aside from their radio hits. Every once in a while I'll download songs at random to see if they have some gems that never made it to the radio. I did that with Asia, and I didn't care for their non radio hits. But I'll try that with Yes sometime at a later date.

I like much of their stuff, but you might try:

The Yes Album
Close to the Edge
Fragile

These are probably their most popular albums, they all have a hit or two that you'll probably recognize. They all also have some outstanding instrumental work and are located somewhere between art rock and jazz.

The problem a lot of metal heads have with Yes is that the band is pretty upbeat. They dig Bhuddism and not Satan. If you prefer heavier fare you might try some middle era King Crimson. I'm talking about the three albums they released in the early 1970s:

Larks Tongue in Aspic
Starless and Bible Black
Red

These albums are a lot darker than Yes' stuff, but are still a lot more comlex than any metal. They also rock really hard. Like Yes their personnel is a good deal more talented than your average rock band. They like a lot of minor keys and odd time signatures and it usually takes a few listens to get to know the songs because of their complexity and because you can't be assured that they are going in the direction you think they are going.

	17-08-2005 00:53									#49
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Relayer is also a classic. One of my favourite Yes albums.

	17-08-2005 13:46									#50
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quote: Originally posted by Dr Zoidberg Relayer is also a classic. One of my favourite Yes albums.

I just bought it (on CD, OI already had the LP) last month. My only problem with it? Too short!

	17-08-2005 15:33									#51
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quote: Originally posted by Dis Does anyone know any experimental metal music? I love listening too the jazz station in Vegas on saturday nights. They play what they call experimental jazz. I've heard some amazing stuff. I still like metal better than jazz. But some of the stuff I have heard on the experimental jazz segment blows away even my most favourite heavy metal song. The problem with metal is there is no innovation anymore. Every band sounds the same. The 80's were the best time for heavy metal. Many new genres came about, and people weren't afraid to experiment. There probably are some cool bands with a different sound, but I may not have heard of them. As usually just the bands with the normal metal sound make the metal radio stations I've listened to over the years. So if you guys know any band who has a unique (and cool) sound but aren't popular, point them out. I'll give them a try. It was easy to hear cool bands when I was a teenager. As when you are in the "scene" you exchange cassette tapes and copy them with dual cassette players. Those were the days. In fact I still have this cassette that has some cool metal songs. Even though the sound quality on the cassette tape sucks, those songs are still amazing. Early 80's metal rules!

What's you definition of experimental and popular? More specifically, are you familiar with most of the bands that get categorized into progressive metal?

Assuming you don't know every even somewhat popular prog metal band, here are a few suggestions:

Pain Of Salvation, a Swedish prog metal band led by the talented guitarist/singer/songwriter Daniel Gildenlöw. Their album 'A Perfect Element, Part I' is probably my favourite of all time.

Spiral Architect, a Norwegian prog metal band. Very talented musicians, very demanding music with constant tempo changes.

Zero Hour, prog metallers from the USA. Their album 'The Towers Of Avarice' shows that you can have interesting prog metal without guitar solos or (a lot of) keyboards. A godly rhythm section and a great singer help a lot.

Power Of Omens' first album 'Eyes Of The Oracle' is among my favourite debuts, largely thanks to the excellent drumming from Alex Arellano and a human clone of Geoff Tate in vocals.


If you're not bored with the more mainstream prog metal style, I have a ton of other suggestions, like Dream Theater, Symphony X, Fates Warning, Reading Zero, Eternity X, Shadow Gallery, etc.

	17-08-2005 15:57									#52
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Not entirely sure but you might like these:

'June 1 1974' which sees the rather interesting line-up of Nico, John Cale, Brian Eno and Kevin Ayers performing amongst other songs, 'Heartbreak Hotel', 'The End' and 'Baby's On Fire' with a whole side of Ayers' blues.

http://www.xs4all.nl/~werksman/cale...une_1_1974.html

Magazine's 'Real Life'- their ground-breaking first album with sizzling guitar playing and the swirling keyboards that became a keynote of their albums.

http://www.mp3.com/albums/9971/summary.html

And 801's live album, entitled imaginatively '801:Live' with storming performances of 'Tomorrow Never Knows' 'You Really Got Me' and 'Third Uncle'.

http://www.manzanera.com/801cat.htm

	17-08-2005 16:22									#53
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quote: Originally posted by molly bloom Magazine's 'Real Life'- their ground-breaking first album with sizzling guitar playing and the swirling keyboards that became a keynote of their albums.

I have a vague memory of Magazine from those days but I dont have any of their albums.

Funny (strange) comment from that link:

"Magazine's Real Life is post-punk ground zero. "

1978! Post-punk?

	17-08-2005 17:25									#54
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quote: Originally posted by SpencerH I have a vague memory of Magazine from those days but I dont have any of their albums. Funny (strange) comment from that link: "Magazine's Real Life is post-punk ground zero. " 1978! Post-punk?

Indeedy doody. Over here punk was 1976-1977 really, and by 1978 we were waving goodbye to the 100 Club and gobbing and saying hello to the New Wave.

Of course over there your punk had started somewhat earlier in 74-75, inspiring McLaren to attempt something similar over here, but social conditions being what they were in the two countries we ended up with something more nihilistic, whereas you had Patti Smith and Television referencing anarchists and Rimbaud and David Byrne using French phrases in 'Psycho Killer'.

Couldn't see French going down too well at 'The Hope and Anchor' really, unless it was Little Bob Story performing 'All Or Nothing'.

Magazine did have the punk connection with Devoto (ex of Buzzcocks) but you can see the more intelligent less nihilistic New Wave approach evolving- he referenced fin de siecle French novels and Symbolist artists such as Odilon Redon on single covers, and even Siouxsie and the Banshees were abandoning the punk thrash of their early amateurish demos and covering the Beatles and pictorially quoting a Burt Lancaster film on their first album cover and John Heartfield's photmontages on their single covers.

A world away from 'Never Mind The Bollocks'...

	17-08-2005 20:08									#55
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76-77?

Never mind the bullocks 1977
The great rock and roll swindle 1979
The clash UK 1977
Give em enough rope 1978
The Clash US 1979
London Calling 1979
Sandinista 1980
Rattus Norveigicus 1977
No more Heros 1977
Black and white 1978
999 1978
Seperates 1978
Biggest prize in sport 1980

I didnt see the Ramones until 78 (I think) and they were still pretty fresh then.

For me, punk was 77-79/80

	19-08-2005 15:29									#56
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quote: Originally posted by SpencerH 76-77? The great rock and roll swindle 1979 Give em enough rope 1978 London Calling 1979 Sandinista 1980 Rattus Norveigicus 1977 No more Heros 1977 Black and white 1978 999 1978 Seperates 1978 Biggest prize in sport 1980 I didnt see the Ramones until 78 (I think) and they were still pretty fresh then. For me, punk was 77-79/80

'The Great Rock and Roll Swindle' is only a punk cash-in, and by 'Give 'Em Enough Rope' the Clash are aleready veering towards widening their sound past the three chord thrash .

Although The Stranglers were called punk their sound was more New Wave even when they were starting out. Punk prog style keyboards ? Nah.

The release dates of albums shouldn't be confused with determining the duration of the musical genre- I was witness to the change in sound in '78-'79 over here.

	19-08-2005 16:40									#57
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quote: Originally posted by molly bloom And 801's live album, entitled imaginatively '801:Live' with storming performances of 'Tomorrow Never Knows' 'You Really Got Me' and 'Third Uncle'. http://www.manzanera.com/801cat.htm

I'm always torn between the two versions of Third Uncle as to which one is my favorite. I like the heavier sound of the live version except for the drums. I prefer the really light and fast drumming on the studio version. Both versions really rock of course, and I'm glad to have the variety.

	19-08-2005 16:44									#58
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No one mentioned Iggy Pop / Iggy and the Stooges who were doing punk in the early 70s. By the late 70s Iggy had already moved on. Of course I don't think that anyone was calling that sort of music Punk back then, only its practitioners.

	19-08-2005 16:48									#59
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quote: Originally posted by Sikander I'm always torn between the two versions of Third Uncle as to which one is my favorite. I like the heavier sound of the live version except for the drums. I prefer the really light and fast drumming on the studio version. Both versions really rock of course, and I'm glad to have the variety.

I'd be glad not to have Bauhaus's version.

I have a bootleg version of 801 performing it from the Reading Festival too- on a six track mini-album with Eno and the Winkies performing a very strange version of 'Fever'....

	19-08-2005 17:12									#60
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quote: Originally posted by molly bloom I'd be glad not to have Bauhaus's version. I have a bootleg version of 801 performing it from the Reading Festival too- on a six track mini-album with Eno and the Winkies performing a very strange version of 'Fever'....

That looks interesting. I've never heard it.