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What signature convention, if any, should we follow with unit icons (Time out:0 days after 04-09-2005, 05:38)
I like BillyBud's hierarchy of signatures
One signature: the most significant
One signature: the latest contribution
Signatures for public domain? Not needed!
Here's a better idea! _____
What's an icon?
All signatures should look like bananas!
View Results [Edit Poll (moderators only)]
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curtsibling is offline curtsibling
King
of the Kill!
May 2002
time: 05:31
  Old Post 05-09-2005 14:57 Visit curtsibling's homepage!
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#31 Report this post to a moderator
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quote:
Originally posted by techumseh
No, you sound more like Jesse Jackson.


That is fighting talk!



quote:
Originally posted by techumseh
Don't assume that if people get pissed off, they will drop away. If this forum has a problem, it's that it's too boring. Everyone is WAY too nice.


I think the forum is OK. So please be nice.

If you want a blood-soaked battle...

You should hang out in the Poly OT for a week with your current sigline.

techumseh is offline techumseh
King
of the frozen North.
Apr 1999
time: 22:31
  Old Post 05-09-2005 20:46 Visit techumseh's homepage!
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#32 Report this post to a moderator
Get a bigger avatar today!

Nice is maybe the wrong word. Avoiding controversy, maybe?

Sarsstock is offline Sarsstock
Prince

Nov 2003
time: 05:31
  Old Post 05-09-2005 21:34
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#33 Report this post to a moderator
Inflate your Upload Space

I don't think its an issue of us at the forum trying to avoid controversy, but rather most of us don't really see the need to create it and or agitate it for such an issue like this.

Also, did Alex really try to charge people for using his units? How did he attempt to do this exactly?

fairline is offline fairline
Prince
of the wing
Sep 2002
time: 05:31
  Old Post 05-09-2005 21:35 Visit fairline's homepage!
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Hey Tech, why are there no votes for 'one signature, the latest contribution'? Surely there should be at least one vote?

I think the bananas have it, which in my case was a vote for the status quo. None of this is important enough to get too worked up about, but I would advocate leaving the sig of the originator on the graphic unless it is made unrecognisable. Significant contributions warrant adding the editor(s) sigs, and to take Boco's point about multiple editors, just add more sigs. This business about indicating who was the last editor and suchlike seems a bit prescriptive.

fairline is offline fairline
Prince
of the wing
Sep 2002
time: 05:31
  Old Post 05-09-2005 21:37 Visit fairline's homepage!
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#35 Report this post to a moderator
Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote:
Originally posted by Sarsstock
Also, did Alex really try to charge people for using his units? How did he attempt to do this exactly?


Alex claimed copyright and made his units files an 'uneditable' format, as Varwnos said. I don't think anyone bought any though, did they Tech?

fairline is offline fairline
Prince
of the wing
Sep 2002
time: 05:31
  Old Post 05-09-2005 21:42 Visit fairline's homepage!
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EDIT: petty wittering removed

Last edited by fairline on 06-09-2005 at 21:18

techumseh is offline techumseh
King
of the frozen North.
Apr 1999
time: 22:31
  Old Post 05-09-2005 21:55 Visit techumseh's homepage!
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#37 Report this post to a moderator
Put an end to popups!

@Sarsstock: Alex showed up just before I did. When I first logged on to this forum, he was in the middle of being lectured by some of the early members about his mercenary ways. It was the height of Perestroika, and Alex was very entreprenurial, to say the least. My recollection was that he wanted 5 dollars US per scenario. (edit: I don't recall anyone actually buying one)

On his web site he used to claim to be the best unit artist anywhere, and challenged others to beat him. Later, he somehow fiddled with his graphics files so they wouldn't load in standard graphics programs, only in Civ. After that, he calmed down and posted very good illustrated tips on unit making on his site.

@Fairline: I actually opted for "most significant" to avoid the "touch up and switch sig" problem you talked about.

Henrik is offline Henrik
Emperor
The European Union, Sweden, Lund
Dec 2000
time: 06:31
  Old Post 05-09-2005 22:25 Visit Henrik's homepage!
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#38 Report this post to a moderator
Inflate your Upload Space

quote:
Originally posted by techumseh
Later, he somehow fiddled with his graphics files so they wouldn't load in standard graphics programs, only in Civ.


His protection was quite easy to circumvent though

varwnos is offline varwnos
Prince
Thessalonike
Oct 2003
time: 07:31
  Old Post 05-09-2005 23:49
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#39 Report this post to a moderator
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quote:
Originally posted by curtsibling
I think common sense and honesty should be the currency.

If you only change the paintwork of a tank or the helmet of a infantry -
Then I do not think an editor can be credited with any real work...

On the other hand......
If you slave for 6 hours, creating changes that render the unit unrecognisable -

Then, by all means, a sig should be added.
But the originator should still retain his sig.


That is my policy - I consider anything else un-gentlemanly...




hm, but then there is only a connection in theory. I mean one could base a unit on some other pic, but then it would be really unintelligent to use something out of the civ world, minimise it to civ2 unit size, and start blanking out surfaces there and deciding patterns to use, instead of doing the same thing with a civ2 unit as a base. i can post an example of one unit i made which doesnt look at all like the one i used as a base for it, but still i used the other one as a base so as to gain some time. Ofcourse i completely erased any of the old features, not keeping neither legs, arms, body stature, general feel, or anything else. It just helped me gain considerable time to start by looking at an already made unit, so that i could focus on making my own, without being miles away from even the most basic visualisation of a unit.

Ofcourse i could just have a concept in my imagination, and try to slowly build it up from nothing, but in my case i think that i am not finding this acceptable for me since my imaginary world is already linked to my literary work, and trying to make a unit this way would act against my decision to keep clear borders between my (serius) literary work, and my more carefree civ2 work (which isnt of high level anyway)

well, after all that, here is the example: the 'savage' unit is by someone else. The red unit is a goblin spearman i have recently made:

Attachment: example.png
This has been downloaded 98 time(s).

Arthedain is offline Arthedain
Prince
Dúnedain of the north
Apr 2002
time: 06:31
  Old Post 05-09-2005 23:59
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#40 Report this post to a moderator
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quote:
Originally posted by Sarsstock
I have to admit I'm a bit confused as to why this has become such a serious issue on the forum.

curtsibling is offline curtsibling
King
of the Kill!
May 2002
time: 05:31
  Old Post 06-09-2005 15:32 Visit curtsibling's homepage!
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#41 Report this post to a moderator
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We should all use the Alex method and make un-editable units!

(joke)

Broken_Erika is offline Broken_Erika
Prince
shoving your soul into a jar of mayonaise
Oct 2004
time: 00:31
  Old Post 06-09-2005 22:16 Visit Broken_Erika's homepage!
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#42 Report this post to a moderator
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quote:
Originally posted by varwnos

well, after all that, here is the example: the 'savage' unit is by someone else. The red unit is a goblin spearman i have recently made:

the "savage unit is by tamerlung, he is a unit artist on civfan,

Case is offline Case

King
The backlash starts here
Feb 2000
time: 15:31
  Old Post 07-09-2005 16:49 Visit Case<br><a href=/members><img src=/forums/images/supporter-icon.gif border=0></a><BR>'s homepage!
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#43 Report this post to a moderator
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quote:
Originally posted by curtsibling
We should all use the Alex method and make un-editable units!


Why not include one of those 100 page licence agreements you have to scroll through before you can activate the unit?

...or better still, let's adapt the process Valve used for Half Life 2! (ie, so that you have to spend two hours activating the unit before you can gain access to it and then have to prove that you're not a pirate every time you load the unit). Incidently, as I've written elsewhere, I'm never buying another Valve product again after HL2.

Last edited by Case on 07-09-2005 at 16:56

Stefan Härtel is offline Stefan Härtel
King
Eddie's best friend
Jul 1999
time: 06:31
  Old Post 08-09-2005 00:01
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#44 Report this post to a moderator
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quote:
Originally posted by techumseh
@Sarsstock: Alex showed up just before I did. When I first logged on to this forum, he was in the middle of being lectured by some of the early members about his mercenary ways. It was the height of Perestroika, and Alex was very entreprenurial, to say the least. My recollection was that he wanted 5 dollars US per scenario. (edit: I don't recall anyone actually buying one)


Some very early designers did so before Alex. I remember one who built in a "self-destruct" mechanism in his events.txt files (i.e. all civs destroying each other after the fourth turn or so). Nice idea, but pretty stupid considering it is child's play to eliminate that.

Alex was maybe very jealous of his work, but he turned out to be a really nice bloke once you had the courage to email him. He's been invaluably helpful on my "Pharaoh" scenario and was a really sweet fellow when it came to ideas and inspirations.

Timor_Leste is offline Timor_Leste
Settler

Aug 2004
time: 05:31
  Old Post 08-09-2005 01:06
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Here's a position I've haven't heard someone take: I'm not so much focused on giving/receiving credit for units, but I think signatures are great because they tell you who you can contact for more of that type or style of unit. As many great unit makers there are out there, they each have their differences, some subtle, some not.

Boco is offline Boco
Prince
who was once King for a week.
Jan 2001
time: 00:31
  Old Post 08-09-2005 06:44 Visit Boco's homepage!
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This is way too controversial for me. I'm not going to post here anymore!

varwnos is offline varwnos
Prince
Thessalonike
Oct 2003
time: 07:31
  Old Post 08-09-2005 06:54
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we should rename signatures to stigmassures (nice word)

Sarsstock is offline Sarsstock
Prince

Nov 2003
time: 05:31
  Old Post 08-09-2005 06:56
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Well, I for one have learned quite a bit about Alex on this thread. Is there anyone who is still in regular contact with him? I would be very curious what he'd have to say on this debate.

curtsibling is offline curtsibling
King
of the Kill!
May 2002
time: 05:31
  Old Post 08-09-2005 07:11 Visit curtsibling's homepage!
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#49 Report this post to a moderator
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Alex has left this plane of mortals and now resides with the gods of CIV in another dimension.

His site is sometimes active...

Available via the classic Tour Eiffel site's links:
(the owner of this site used to also charge cash for civ units)

http://www.paris.web66.com/civ2/civima.htm

varwnos is offline varwnos
Prince
Thessalonike
Oct 2003
time: 07:31
  Old Post 08-09-2005 07:55
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It seems strange now, considering how much better some of the units people now are making (eg Fairline and Curt) to those old ones...

The ANZAC is offline The ANZAC
King
The Rodina!
Jan 2000
time: 00:31
  Old Post 08-09-2005 10:18 Visit The ANZAC's homepage!
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Yeah it is funny, with Captain Nemo and Alex the Magnificent, I had thought we had reached the pinnacle of Civ2 unit design--evidentely not with some of the great work going on here!

curtsibling is offline curtsibling
King
of the Kill!
May 2002
time: 05:31
  Old Post 08-09-2005 15:01 Visit curtsibling's homepage!
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#52 Report this post to a moderator
Inflate your Upload Space

And I think even greater heights are to be reached in time!

Sarsstock is offline Sarsstock
Prince

Nov 2003
time: 05:31
  Old Post 08-09-2005 19:25
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#53 Report this post to a moderator
Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Well each and every year I believe that we've reached just that, the pinnacle of what Civ II graphics and gameplay can be. So far though year after year I'm always proven wrong.

I sure hope I keep being proved wrong in that sense for years to come .

Stefan Härtel is offline Stefan Härtel
King
Eddie's best friend
Jul 1999
time: 06:31
  Old Post 08-09-2005 21:03
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Remove this text

Guys, take into account that almost every scenario was state of the art when it was released, and how much has changed during the last six years (and how some people, including me, have difficulties keeping track).

fairline is offline fairline
Prince
of the wing
Sep 2002
time: 05:31
  Old Post 08-09-2005 21:15 Visit fairline's homepage!
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#55 Report this post to a moderator
Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Don't knock the artwork of Nemo, BeBro, Erwan and Alex. Everything that's been done subsequently owes something to these four in particular. Carl Fritz's terrain is often overlloked as well - I love the stuff he did with his re-releases of Empire and Brown Man's Burden.

As for gameplay, then I think the classic scenarios have stood the test of time and see very little evidence that they have been surpassed.

Sarsstock is offline Sarsstock
Prince

Nov 2003
time: 05:31
  Old Post 08-09-2005 21:44
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I second that Gareth!! There isn't a single project done today that doesn't owe every single bit of they're elements, be it events or units, rules or cities to those great pioneering works that came before them.

The ANZAC is offline The ANZAC
King
The Rodina!
Jan 2000
time: 00:31
  Old Post 08-09-2005 23:36 Visit The ANZAC's homepage!
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#57 Report this post to a moderator
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I wasn't knocking Captain Nemo or Alex the Magnificent: I loved their stuff when it first came out and still love their stuff, it's classic. I love the "cartoonish" look to their units. I definitely see how "nemo-esque" units became the dominant style here and how we have been developing that. It's just I didn't think we could have developed it more and sure enough we have

curtsibling is offline curtsibling
King
of the Kill!
May 2002
time: 05:31
  Old Post 09-09-2005 01:10 Visit curtsibling's homepage!
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#58 Report this post to a moderator
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The legends live on!

Sarsstock is offline Sarsstock
Prince

Nov 2003
time: 05:31
  Old Post 09-09-2005 02:04
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Well I figured that you weren't knocking Alex ANZAC, I have yet to come across a single active member of the community that doesn't respect his incredible contribution to the Civilization II legacy.

curtsibling is offline curtsibling
King
of the Kill!
May 2002
time: 05:31
  Old Post 09-09-2005 03:39 Visit curtsibling's homepage!
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Inflate your Upload Space

ANZAC's statement was perfectly reasonable.
We all accept that Nemo's work took CIV2 to the next level.

Though the torch has been carried by many great
artists and designers since those great days of yore!

 
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