09-09-2005 02:25									#181
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quote: Originally posted by Asher I've done far more important things than that, Markos, and I have a sense of responsibility.

it's not about doing something important

it's about daily voluntary service for 7 years

	09-09-2005 02:26									#182
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quote: Originally posted by Eli * Eli is waiting for the next Alexander to liberate Greece from it's oppressors.

	09-09-2005 02:28									#183
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quote: Originally posted by MarkG it's not about doing something important it's about daily voluntary service for 7 years

I volunteer to bring my wisdom here all the time.

	09-09-2005 02:29									#184
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quote: Originally posted by joncha Remind me to ban you for no apparent reason.

I could give you a very apparent reason for banning me

	09-09-2005 02:30									#185
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quote: Originally posted by MarkG if they start banning people who will be left?

I was banned for several months

	09-09-2005 02:30									#186
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quote: Originally posted by lord of the mark the first newspaper ever was published in Thessaloniki was the Jewish paper "EL LUNAR" (1864). Industrial development was launched too, with the big steam mill of the Italian - Jews of the Allatini family (1854).

You got to be kidding me! Alatini are like the biggest biscuit bread/products firm from when i was a kid no idea they were of jewish religion

	09-09-2005 02:34									#187
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quote: Originally posted by Bereta_Eder You got to be kidding me! Alatini are like the biggest biscuit bread/products firm from when i was a kid no idea they were of jewish religion

" Both the Italians and Spanish were rescued from Salonika, but when Italy broke off from the Axis, the Italian Jews were then pursued in Athens and eventually deported for the most part. A group of very wealthy Jews from the Fernandez, Modiano, Torres, and Allatini families escaped to Italy and were killed by the Germans at Lake Maggiore. Another group from these wealthy families that hid in Athens were also detected and deported to Birkenau. "

	09-09-2005 02:37									#188
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Yep when the Germans invaded the jewish community of Thesaloniki was all but wiped out as well as 500.000 Greek souls overall. But the firm still exists btw by that name. unless it was bought by a large multinational or something,

	09-09-2005 02:45									#189
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Talking about wiping out communities it's two days since the black anniversary of the pogroms in Constnantinople that wiped out the Greek community there in 1955. And armenian and jewish. 150.000 people overall.

	09-09-2005 02:55									#190
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http://www.allatini.gr/en/istoriki.asp
seem like that as of 1926 the company is greek owned

	09-09-2005 02:56									#191
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quote: Originally posted by Cort Haus It's not 50%. I haven't seen recent figures but in 2001 the (disputed) figure was I think more between 20%-25%.

I think it is (or was at the time of the "albanian unrest") hovering around 40% of the total population. I may very well be wrong but I distinctively remember reading this number.

	09-09-2005 03:03									#192
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quote: Originally posted by MarkG http://www.allatini.gr/en/istoriki.asp seem like that as of 1926 the company is greek owned

ah yes. i feel a little dumb now.

	09-09-2005 03:17									#193
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talking about jewish religion, during my vacations that were prolonged and ended in a remote island (kos) where bicycles were big we were heading for Asklipeiion, that's where hippocrates tought medecine. lots of dorian temples, roman pillars etc it was really a hell of a spectacle and the location must be one of the most mesmerizing on that island which was a heaven by itself.

anyway we were riding the bikes and getting closer to the inner mountains so the land started going upwards (hard for bikes).

at the road to asklipeiion (we decided to go once at dusk and then again at dawn) there was a big forest that had fences around it. that was to the right of our road. as we approached we saw a very big star of david in the iron fence door. turns out that forest was in fact a jewish cemetary. was rather eirie with the darkness and all though, very gothic like. I got pictures of it but the flash was so strong it appears to be daytime and the eiree feeling is lost in the picture

	09-09-2005 03:17									#194
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quote: Originally posted by Bereta_Eder I think it is (or was at the time of the "albanian unrest") hovering around 40% of the total population. I may very well be wrong but I distinctively remember reading this number.

Some pro-Albanian sources did quote higher figures, but this source ('Radio Free Europe') uses a figure of 23%.

http://www.rferl.org/featuresarticl...c5f38914ff.html

	09-09-2005 03:32									#195
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I fully support the Greek claims of Macedonia, Constantinople and Ionia. The Turkish heathens and Slavic barbarians criminally claim the glorious past as their own and shamefully exploit it.

	09-09-2005 03:43									#196
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What I've learned from this thread:

a) Greeks are xenophobic bastards with inferiority complexes

b) Eventis sucks

	09-09-2005 03:54									#197
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Heh.

I think Markos' defensive attitude on the whole issue may be just a little bit counter-productive.

Few men have done more than he to spread the message of Macedonia's plight vis-a-vis those nasty Greeks.

	09-09-2005 04:07									#198
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Yes but we'll always have eurovision to counter that.

I think "Network 21" should re-activate (the embargo was a joke shouldn't have ended there) and just force the name change and be done with it . That way bandwidth would be preserved. Why were we the 3rd country with the most defense spending in the world in 2004 if we're not going to produce value out of it? every year we spend an olympiad in weapons and for what?
plus the internet would be hugelly decongested with that policy so we'd be helping technology advance too.

Last edited by Bereta_Eder on 09-09-2005 at 04:20

	09-09-2005 05:04									#199
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quote: Originally posted by Winston Few men have done more than he to spread the message of Macedonia's plight vis-a-vis those nasty Greeks.

true (and ironic)

Think about all the Canadians and US-ians who wouldn't have known about the controversy was it not for him.


And by the way, Greeks must have some outstanding lobbyists and diplomats with connections. The fact that Macedonia is admitted into UN under some other name is proof of that. I don't know for sure, but EU might have same policy with regard to its name in official documents. Yet all the individuals I have ever heard voice their opinion on the matter have supported Macedonians side. Except a few in this thread.

	09-09-2005 05:07									#200
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SAGAPO!!

come on Bereta.. besides your new name is too difficult. I prefer paiktis Why don't you change it back? Or have an easier name.. like Greek Bastard or something that actually suits you

about Greece vs Macedonia, I just read a bit of story from the times of Alexander the Great. Do you know who humiliated him? Dioxippus.. he was this awesome fighter, like pankration super champ, olympic winner and stuff, and he totally dominated Coragus, the excuse of a fighter from Macedonia. They agreed to fight, one single fight, and everyone was cheering. Alexander the Great was there like the dude he is, watching, drooling those trained bodies.

Coragus camed fully equipped, with full combat armor, and weapons, javelin, spear and sword. Dioxippus came unarmored, and having only a club. Because he was the stud and he knew he could totally whoop the ground with his opponent, that was representing Macedonia and Alexander the Great.

Quickly, in matter of seconds, Dioxippus totally dominated the fight, dodging the javelin and breaking the spear with his club, threw him down with a great takedown and put his foot on him, standing while the weak ***** was on his back. Alexander yearned his body, so he said Dioxippus must spare his life.

AND then, they framed Dioxippus of a theft, leading him to commit a suicide later on. It was a conspiracy, and.. what can I say.. Legend from Greece, and that's how Macedonians, the barbarians and sore losers.. that's the way it was, that's the way it still must be.

Dioxippus must be avenged.

Last edited by Pekka on 09-09-2005 at 05:14

	09-09-2005 05:12									#201
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I'll consider it seriously

	09-09-2005 05:14									#202
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quote: Originally posted by KrazyHorse b) Eventis sucks

I can't believe it, ANOTHER crazy site dedicated to spam. I thought counterglow was the only of its kind.

	09-09-2005 05:19									#203
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quote: Originally posted by VetLegion true (and ironic) Think about all the Canadians and US-ians who wouldn't have known about the controversy was it not for him. And by the way, Greeks must have some outstanding lobbyists and diplomats with connections. The fact that Macedonia is admitted into UN under some other name is proof of that. I don't know for sure, but EU might have same policy with regard to its name in official documents. Yet all the individuals I have ever heard voice their opinion on the matter have supported Macedonians side. Except a few in this thread.

I think the greek side just presented them with the skopjia's constitution. having read about the "need to liberate" they backed greek positions and the need to at least try and curb that country's nationalistic fervor.

actuallly the very first EU/UN declaration totally backed the greek positions including a name other than macedonia. i mean a name that would not include that term in that.

after that it got complicated. skpjia run into huge problems with their albanians and gained lots of sympathy for its plight (including lots in grteece for that particular subjecT)

dont think it's easy on greece though. i think we're taking hit after hit after hit about this issue. but it is very very unimportant as an issue in the wider balkan agenda.

now papandreou made the embargo (Network 21 is an network in greek defense circles that calls for exploiting our weapons arsenal dynamically - not with wars but with putting pressure - not only increase deterance capabilities but also put pressure) and that totally isolated greece.

greece has gained absolutely no sympathy for that issue from noone. but it remains an important (well somewhat important) issue. there are many voices that question the rationality of such a stance in greek foreign policies.

but there are also a lot of people that will not take it too kindly if it was abandoned.

	09-09-2005 05:35									#204
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quote: Originally posted by Az FOPOG

	09-09-2005 05:37									#205
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quote: I think the greek side just presented them with the skopjia's constitution. having read about the "need to liberate" they backed greek positions and the need to at least try and curb that country's nationalistic fervor.

I'm not buying this. It's the same UN that had two Chinas as members, or Taiwan as China and no China I forgot. Also, if they are so moral, why did they admit Armenia and a host of other countries with expansionistic claims.

Nah, UN couldn't care less. You simply have good diplomats and connections (or lots of bribe money). And in EU you're a member and can have your way against non-members.

	09-09-2005 05:37									#206
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Oh why not, it seems to be all the rage

	09-09-2005 05:43									#207
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There's no need to buy anything any Greek person has to say on this subject.

quote: Originally posted by Bereta_Eder actuallly the very first EU/UN declaration totally backed the greek positions

So when did they start issuing these EU/UN declarations?

	09-09-2005 05:43									#208
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quote: Originally posted by VetLegion quote: I think the greek side just presented them with the skopjia's constitution. having read about the "need to liberate" they backed greek positions and the need to at least try and curb that country's nationalistic fervor. I'm not buying this. It's the same UN that had two Chinas as members, or Taiwan as China and no China I forgot. Also, if they are so moral, why did they admit Armenia and a host of other countries with expansionistic claims. Nah, UN couldn't care less. You simply have good diplomats and connections (or lots of bribe money). And in EU you're a member and can have your way against non-members.

It's not that they are moral. The war in the balkans was raging at that time and you have a new country coming up with a constitution calling for "liberation" of territories from a neighbor, grasping its national symbols etc.
Would you risk flaming up the balkans even further?

of course you can believe what you want about our "great diplomacy" makes you cute

	09-09-2005 05:47									#209
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quote: Originally posted by Winston There's no need to buy anything any Greek person has to say on this subject. So when did they start issuing these EU/UN declarations?

You're right. Let's make it clear.

I'm talking about the first EU summit declaration that occupied itself with that issue.
There were 3 requests from greece and all three were backed by the summit's members.
those included first and outmost abolition of clauses in constitution calling for needs to liberate "south macedonia", then the abstinance of use of other countries national symbols and also the not use of a name that would include the term macedonia.


those were not binding towards skopjia. it was simply that. a EU declaration.

The UN just accepted the name that was temporarily agreed between greece and skopjia, which was and is Fyrom.

	09-09-2005 05:49									#210
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quote: Originally posted by Winston There's no need to buy anything any Greek person has to say on this subject.

I'm still waiting for axi to appear and defend the Greek position from the communist perspective