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Flubber
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With a view of the Rockies
Aug 2000
time: 22:37
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Oh and I wanted to point out that no matter what any Danes may say, Canada has the clear claim to Hans island and we will prove it in a contest of any three sporting matches as long as they are all hockey and curling
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VetLegion
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My point exactly. "Talvisota", not "the winter war". "The winter war" is the translation in english.
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VetLegion
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Of course. The matter here is not how the translation was made, but when. The context. Also remember the etymology of those words (but let our Canadian discover it for himself).
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Flubber
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With a view of the Rockies
Aug 2000
time: 22:37
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quote:
Originally posted by VetLegion
Macedonians refer to themselves as Macedonians, and Greeks refer to them as FYROM. Your point? Are you going to argue that FYROMians can call themselves a historical Greek province just because they want to?
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What's your point? Are you going to argue that the Greek ice hockey team are truly the best in the world?
quote:
Originally posted by VetLegion
Did it occur to you that "Winter War" is an English term which neither of those countries originally used? |
err yes-- kind of obvious actually-- also weakens your idea that the name was copied
quote:
Originally posted by VetLegion
Are you aware just how weak your argumentation is?
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yes-- my argument is that a term like "winter war" should be reserved for a manly contest in the near arctic and not for a contest on a hilltop a few miles from beach resorts (although I do hear some Italians sufefred frostbite). Frankly the Italian-Greek thing probably doesn't even qualify as a separate "war " in its own right given how it was just a footnote in world war II amd involved the Brits, germans etc as well as the greeks and Italians. The Greeks lasted from October 28 to the end of April and were completely defeated.
The Finnish winter war occurred between two nations that were then not combatants in WW2 and the Finns put up a heroic and fierce defence and retained their sovereignty.
Therefore I think the term "THE WINTER WAR " should only refer to an actual war like this . I note that Wihipedia refers to the Finnish conflict as " the Winter War"
quote:
Originally posted by VetLegion
Are you aware that Finland didn't even exist when Theorakis from Xenissa wrote the first Spartan manual on winter warfare?
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No I was not.
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VetLegion
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quote:
Originally posted by Flubber
this Greek thing wasn't worthy to be called a "war" by itself any more than we refer to the German-Polish war of 1939 |
And the Finnish-Russian war that started three months after the begining of World War II is a separate and unrelated war?
You are embarassing yourself. Quit it while you can and post some pictures of naked polar bears, so that this thread won't be a total waste of time for the readers.
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VetLegion
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quote:
heck even the title of the picture is misleading since it was the germans that kicked Greek and British butt. |
Seriously man, British didn't fight in The Winter War. You make ten sentences, you make ten historical mistakes in them. Terrible. You're the worst advocate of Finnish right to "Winter War" I have seen since this controversy started.
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Flubber
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With a view of the Rockies
Aug 2000
time: 22:37
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quote:
Originally posted by VetLegion
And the Finnish-Russian war that started three months after the begining of World War II is a separate and unrelated war?
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Separate : yes -- neither the Finns nor the Russians were combatants in WW2 at the time and the Brits were potential allies of the Finns but stayed out of it IIRC. . . and you may recall the Brits later allied with the Russians when they were ACTUALLY pulled into WW2 This Winter war ended with its own peace treaty PRIOR to the Russian involvement in WW2.
Unrelated : NO don't be silly-- Russia saw that the rest of the major powers were occupied elsewhere and attempted grand theft country. If WW2 was not ongoing I doubt they would have tried
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Flubber
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With a view of the Rockies
Aug 2000
time: 22:37
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quote:
Originally posted by VetLegion
quote:
heck even the title of the picture is misleading since it was the germans that kicked Greek and British butt. |
Seriously man, British didn't fight in The Winter War. |
17/04/1941 Yugoslavia surrenders, with the Wehrmacht taking 334, 000 prisoners. King Peter of Yugoslavia is flown to Athens and then on to London by the RAF.
18/04/1941 The German 12th Army forces a crossing of the river Aliakmon between the Greek First Army and the British forces. Athens is placed under martial law. Greek Prime Minister, Alexandros Korizis commits suicide.
19/04/1941 The Germans attack south through Greece on a wide front. The Greek Government agrees that British forces should be evacuated. General Wilson plans to make a strong stand at Thermopylae, to cover the withdrawal of his troops to ports in the Peloponnese.
20/04/1941 British forces in Greece retreat from Mt. Olympus. King George II heads new Greek government.
21/04/1941 The Greek Army surrenders to the 1st SS Leibstandarte Division. Its commander, Sepp Dietrich accepts this, without referring to his superiors. All Greek soldiers were allowed to return home, while officers were allowed to retain their side arms. Mussolini, upon hearing of this is furious and makes the Greeks sign another surrender document with much harsher terms.
23/04/1941 King George II of Greece and his government are flown to Crete by the RAF.
24/04/1941 German forces in Greece break through British positions at Thermopylae and land paratroops on Greek islands in the north-eastern Aegean. The British expeditionary force begins the evacuation of its troops to Egypt and Crete.
25/04/1941 German paratroops seize Corinth and cross the Corinth Canal to the Peloponnese. Hitler issues Directive No.28, ordering the preparation of plans to capture Crete. The basic plan is to involve 22,750 paratroops, 650 combat aircraft and is to be launched on the 18th May 1941, although this is put back to the 20th May 1941.
27/04/1941 German troops occupy Athens.
28/04/1941 The British evacuation of Greece is completed.
Source http://www.worldwar-2.net/timelines...-index-1941.htm
OR
When the Germans moved into Bulgaria in preparation for the invasion, Greece asked for British intervention. At the time of the German attack (6 April 1941) the bulk of the Greek forces were facing the Italians in Albania. Some of the remaining Greek forces were deployed in a line of fortifications along the Bulgarian frontier (the Metaxas_Line) and most of the rest were with the British intervention forces deploying north of Larissa. The British wanted the Greeks to abandon the Metaxas Line and deploy north of Larissa; the Greeks vacillated. The Germans invaded Yugoslavia at the same time as Greece and so were able to outflank the Metaxas line by moving through southern Yugoslavia. The Allied forces were forced south. German paratroops landed around the Corinth Canal sealing the fate of the Peloponnese. Because their army was mechanised the British managed to withdraw most of their troops; the slower Greek forces were captured by the Germans.
http://www.mlahanas.de/Greece/Histo...ItalianWar.html
Thats two sources in two minutes but sure sure the Brits were never there
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Flubber
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With a view of the Rockies
Aug 2000
time: 22:37
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quote:
Originally posted by VetLegion
quote:
Separate : yes -- neither the Finns nor the Russians were combatants in WW2 at the time |
Oh my God. Now you don't consider Poland a country.
quote:
The Polish September Campaign — also known as "Polish-German War of 1939", in Poland often as Wojna obronna 1939 roku ("Defensive War of 1939"), in Germany as "Polish Campaign" (Polenfeldzug), codenamed Fall Weiss (Case White) in the German General Staff — was the invasion of Poland by the armies of Nazi Germany, the Soviet Union, and a small contingent of Slovak forces during the Second World War. The campaign began on 1 September 1939, one week after the signing of the secret Hitler-Stalin Pact, and ended on 6 October 1939, with Germany and the Soviet Union occupying the entirety of Poland. |
Flubber, this is a disaster  |
In November 1939 please name ONE country that the Soviet Union was Officially at war with other than Finland. Your own source confirms that the Polish war was over in October although the occupation continued
And yes Poland is a country but I don't consider the 1939 Polish invasion to be a separate war, or the invasion of France, or the attack on pearl harbour. All were parts of one conflict. The Finnish war was different--it had only two participants and had a separate beginning and end independent of the wider conflict. When it ended I don't believe either country was at war with anyone else (but would have to check that)
Last edited by Flubber on 15-09-2005 at 06:28
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Bereta_Eder
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btw finns indeed changed their flag because it was too similar to greek one.
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15-09-2005 03:09
) we dont call it "winter war" 
it just gets better
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