15-09-2005 14:07									#31
	Suffering from ads?

We just don't subscribe to your specific technical definition as defined by magazine editorials.

	15-09-2005 14:19									#32
	Got spare money?

Man, I wish that was a real excuse. If it was, I could call you an idiot and avoid a trip to Mingapulco by claiming that I don't subscribe to the actual definition of that term...

	15-09-2005 14:21									#33
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

If you say so.

	15-09-2005 14:57									#34
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Exactly how many neo-con senators and congressmen are there?

	15-09-2005 15:32									#35
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

17.467

	15-09-2005 17:13									#36
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

I think DanS's head is going to explode...

	15-09-2005 17:47									#37
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Since when is lowering educational requirements a part of hurricane relief?

Or maybe I'm just not understanding the No Child Left Behind comment in the article?

	15-09-2005 18:28									#38
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten The only reason you think they're involved is that you and shawn have no idea what a neo-conservative actually is...

Well in the case of William F. Buckley and Irving Kristol, they're ex-communists. and no, I'm not happy about that.


Seeker: It'll help cut budgetary expenditures.

	15-09-2005 18:30									#39
	Tired of ads?

quote: Originally posted by Theben Well in the case of William F. Buckley and Irving Kristol, they're ex-communists. and no, I'm not happy about that.

Worse they were ex-Trotskyites, IIRC.

	15-09-2005 18:44									#40
	Suffering from ads?

Damn Trotskyites! Nothing but drink-soaked popinjays, they are!

	15-09-2005 19:53									#41
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

How about this "Starve the beast." As in run up irresponsible (by anyone else's definitions) deficits so government is forced to shrink. From that white paper they wrote - was it the late 80's or early 90's? Plus ignore the consequences of the high debt creating the inability to respond to (shh, whisper it) crisis, like maybe - the unplanned resistance in Iraq, or a cat 5 hurricane slamming into a major Gulf-Coast city? Or the resultant high interest rates that will decimate anybody not having access to hedge-funds - which means the wealthy still do well while the middle class...

	15-09-2005 21:21									#42
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten Damn Trotskyites! Nothing but drink-soaked popinjays, they are!

It's Trotskyist, thank you very much.

We're Troskyists, not Troskyites, cuz we're socialists, not socialites!

And I'm not drink soaked, nor a popinjay.

	15-09-2005 22:32									#43
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Originally posted by shawnmmcc This is NOT Reagan's party, I listened to a recording of one his speeches recently where he stated while he felt his opponents were wrong, he knew they were just as patriotic as they were. Compare that to what comes out of Karl Rove's machine.

QFT. BFT.

	15-09-2005 22:48									#44
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten The only reason you think they're involved is that you and shawn have no idea what a neo-conservative actually is...

wow you really are a neo-con, the problem is not all of the rest of us are as dumb as strauss has you believe

For others not sure what neo-con is the above quoted post IS classic neo-con spin - you can not be smart enough to understand the grand neo-con mesage, so by default you dont really know what neo-con stands for.

My take on it is americas foreign policy has been heavily influenced by the neo-cons for a very long time, and its frankly distgusting that people can support an illegal war(unjust atleast) then belly ache about helping fellow americans in serious trouble. I thought most of you guys were supposed to be patriotic? thats why you voted bush in again wasn't it?

	15-09-2005 23:02									#45
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Why do you hate America so much?

	15-09-2005 23:06									#46
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

It really is tiresome having to explain that Neo-conservatism is an IR school of thought without a domestic agenda. Seriously, anytime someone does something that you people dislike you claim that Neo-cons are behind it. It's somewhat disturbing to see that level of paranoia and fear.

	15-09-2005 23:14									#47
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

I dont
but i do hate political parties/politicians that sully the good name of a country for dubious and false reasons as hindsight shows us.
maybe you should ask why do i hate neo-cons so much? the answer would be what i posted above plus i just hate liars.

I have yet to meet an american i can say i've hated outright, but i think you should hold your government accountable for its actions, and look beyond party politics; much as i have done with the labour party and Tony blair over here

	15-09-2005 23:18									#48
	Get a bigger avatar today!

quote: Originally posted by child of Thor maybe you should ask why do i hate neo-cons so much?

I'd have to actually care about the answer in order to ask the question. I don't. It's the ignorance espoused by the people that think attacking neo-cons over domestic issues furthers their case that irritates me.

	15-09-2005 23:45									#49
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc It really is tiresome having to explain that Neo-conservatism is an IR school of thought without a domestic agenda. Seriously, anytime someone does something that you people dislike you claim that Neo-cons are behind it. It's somewhat disturbing to see that level of paranoia and fear.

Its good to be paranoid sometimes I may overblow things sometimes, but after help from Imran(pointing me in the direction of staussian philosophy) and other sources the smoke began to clear and i dont care if you claim to be a cuddly neo-con, that doesn't get away from the fact that its all about lieing to the public and using war as a means for changing a soverign nation into a more pro-american primarily,but democratic generaly; nation.

But your point about the neo-cons not having a domestic agenda isn't strickly true. One of the founding principles of straussian and by extension neo-con, is to create myths about the nation(like what the neo-cons did to get bush to call on the religous previously mostly non-voting public to get the last election) even if the leader, spokes person dosn't believe it themselves.

Neo-conservitism is a whole political philosophy for ruling a nation and making it easy to control/predict. I guess as the neo-cons have found their home in the republican partry, they have to tone down this domestic agenda somewhat, after all the whole movement comes out of a bunch of disenchanted liberals(of the very left wing variety i understand).
The foreign policy just happens to go along with the american oil cartels plans - sothey get the full go ahead from bush and oil friends for that.

This is the reality of it all sadly, even when you get past all the typical 'thats not a real neo-con thing' etc. smoke screens/lies that are part of the whole neo-con package.

The sooner the republicans get rid of these guys the better for just about eveyone imho.

And no i dont hate america, just the hijack that is ruining its reputation

But after all these painfull truths, i'm sure its time for one of the stubborn defenders of neo-cons to tell me i'm a lefty commie or something like that......oh and i obviously eat american babies for breakfast

	15-09-2005 23:52									#50
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: Originally posted by child of Thor i dont care if you claim to be a cuddly neo-con,

Imran is the neo-con. I'm the realist and have never represented myself as a neo-con. I stopped reading after the insult.

	16-09-2005 00:02									#51
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc Imran is the neo-con. I'm the realist and have never represented myself as a neo-con. I stopped reading after the insult.

well i wasnt meaning this specificaly about you, its just something many neo-cons do(calim to be 'cuddly'). And sorry to offend you. But DinoDoc, really you cant - shouldn't hide your head in the sand over these issues just because they may be disagreable to come to terms with.

Its upto all decent americans to look beyond the usual party politics(which is very steadfast in the usa and here in the uk, often at the expense of democracy) and to ensure our true democracies carry on in good health. Be on the look out for hijacks, such as the many neo-cons in this republican parties halls of power. And from the uk angle, to keep an eye on this kinda thing here.

Truth hurts and smokes screens dont always work

Still the most disturbing thing about this thread is not that we obviously agree to disagree on the level of neo-con threat to world security(thats me over exagerating again ), but the fact that DanS is having a hernia over the ammount needed to spend on Katrina devestation, but didnt so much(even supported if i remember) as bat an eye lid over the cost of the Iraq war. That is disturbing imho.

	16-09-2005 01:27									#52
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

I am surprised that so many people are suprised by Bush's Keynesianism, when he (and Reagan) has done the most amibtious Keynesian policy in the US since Nixon so far, and is merely intending to continue it.

	16-09-2005 01:30									#53
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: Originally posted by child of Thor maybe you should ask why do i hate neo-cons so much?

My question was not directed to you, but towards the people who asked the same question to anyone opposing the Iraq war.

Now when faced with a war-like domestic problem, the same people refuse to pay the bill. So much for patriotism.

Support the civilians!

	16-09-2005 01:54									#54
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

at Chemical Ollie,

ah ok crossed wires - i'm just so used to people here saying 'why do you hate america' too often i guess(and missing the whole point)

indeed think of the civillians in Katrina and forgo your tax break

while your at it think of the civillians killed in Iraq/Afghanistan too. yes all of them - the ones killed by the extremists too still they wouldn't be there if the whole thing didn't happen as it did?

Last edited by child of Thor on 16-09-2005 at 02:00

	16-09-2005 02:46									#55
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

DD, don't even bother. There are people out there that will NEVER realize that neo-conservativism is an IR policy and want to keep the bogeyman around as long as possible for their own means.

Best to move on.

Hell, I'd think me, OBVIOUSLY not a Bush fan, but a neo-conservative nonetheless, should be enough, but...

	16-09-2005 02:48									#56
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc It really is tiresome having to explain that Neo-conservatism is an IR school of thought without a domestic agenda. Seriously, anytime someone does something that you people dislike you claim that Neo-cons are behind it. It's somewhat disturbing to see that level of paranoia and fear.

Not really.

This doesn't take into account their often ignored universal policy -- which is the goal of whoring out public interests to private enterprise, aka big business. The usual virtues such as reduced cost, higher quality of work done are pushed out there, and things like increased corruption and good ole boys relationshipping between government and private enterprise (Halliburton) are not mentioned.

While this big business whoring extremism isn't a neo-con invention, they have certainly adopted it, and this whoring applies to both foreign and domestic agendas.

This whoring is shown ultimatley by when Wolfowitz himself is appointed as President of the World Bank. Projecting corporate power on a worldwide basis also requires cooperation stateside.

On a side note, it's one of the biggest reasons for the corruption, incompetence, and slow pace of the rebuilding in Iraq. Besides that whole failing to secure the country thing.

	16-09-2005 05:12									#57
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc It really is tiresome having to explain that Neo-conservatism is an IR school of thought without a domestic agenda. Seriously, anytime someone does something that you people dislike you claim that Neo-cons are behind it. It's somewhat disturbing to see that level of paranoia and fear.

Sure, because neocons don't happen to have opinions about domestic policies too.

	16-09-2005 09:41									#58
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten Damn Trotskyites! Nothing but drink-soaked popinjays, they are! It's Trotskyist, thank you very much. We're Troskyists, not Troskyites, cuz we're socialists, not socialites! And I'm not drink soaked, nor a popinjay.

Damn. I wrote Trotskist at first, but changed it to Trotskyite for fear of being mocked. Lot of good that did me. My apologies...

	16-09-2005 13:13									#59
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Uh Dinodoc - "Starve the beast" is completely a domestic policy. Are you claiming that is not a policy of what is often identified as Neocons, or the New Conservatives. BTW Imran, from your posts I do tend to cosider you conservative, but not Neocon. What do you define Neconservative as, and is it related to that white paper I mentioned which I still need to track down? I just loathe the idea of reading the damn thing, I believe it's something like 80 pages long.

	16-09-2005 13:57									#60
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Spiffor I am surprised that so many people are suprised by Bush's Keynesianism, when he (and Reagan) has done the most amibtious Keynesian policy in the US since Nixon so far, and is merely intending to continue it.

I don't get how you reached that conclusion, when Reagan was clearly folowing Friedman's school of economic thought- as is Bush.