20-03-2000 03:12									#31
	Support Apolyton

Oh well, we can agree to disagree about the Angels, that's OK

While we're on the subject though, I'd like to just clarify something. One of the rules of the tournament is:

____________________________________________
If a probe team action is employed against a Treatied or Pacted faction, the initiator must choose the "Declare Vendetta" option, unless permission is received in advance for the action (email).
_________________________________________

When I originally read the rules, I thought this meant stealing techs etc. But now I'm wondering whether it applies to infiltrating datalinks as well? If it does, that means the Angels have to declare vendetta on everyone in order to use their special talent

But anyway, I'd just like to clarify this before any of my games get much further. Any help much appreciated, thanks.

- Mis

	20-03-2000 09:25									#32
	Put an end to popups!

Infiltration does not generate the bugged "declare vendetta" screen at all. The bug is that the option screen goes to the probing player, not the player probed. Infiltration, which I personally consider a far more serious violation than simple theft, is considered no big deal by the game - it does not automatically invoke a vendetta, even with the AI. (The AI may coincidentally declare vendetta, if it doesn't like you anyway).

So there is no need to disclose that you've infiltrated another faction at all.

If you do a nasty probe action on a pacted faction, you don't go directly to vendetta, but to treaty. I've seen this in PBEMs.

	20-03-2000 16:25									#33
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Thanks for the clarification ...

	22-03-2000 05:28									#34
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Question...

I have 2 computers... one of which is my gaming PC and the other is the internet PC... to do a PBEM game, must I install SMAC on the internet PC or does the file produced after a turn be saved somewhere so I can go online and send it, or do I have to be connected to the internet to play? I don't want to have to install the game on the Net PC - Smac is slow as hades after the patches on my P2 300 - I wonder what a P 1 233 with 32 meg of ram would do.

	22-03-2000 05:34									#35
	Tired of ads?

Hi Eternal Spark

All you have to be able to do is email the saved game file to the next person playing the game. So the computer on which you play the game doesn't have to be connected to anything at all.

- Mis

	24-03-2000 18:15									#36
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

I am just getting started in PBEM. Tau Ceti sent me a sample game to give it a try. It was zipped.
Now am I right in extracting it to the "save game file" of Alpha Centauri?
This is the only way I could get it to appear to try to load in the Multi/Hot seat mode.
Now I still can't load it because I get a TerranX error. I have loaded all the patches (I think). I would appreciate any help you can provide, I am (in)patiently waiting to start playing.

Thank you.

	24-04-2000 03:30									#37
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Hi.

This is probably a really stupid question, but I don't want to upset anyone by doing the "wrong" thing.

I understand that you have to choose the vendetta option if you steal tech from a pacted or treatied opponent, because of the PBEM bug.

If I steal tech from a player with whom I am already at vendetta, do I have to tell them? Presumably, they aren't notified when I steal it so do I have a responsibility to tell them that I've done it? I assumed not, but then I started wondering about it ...

	24-04-2000 22:55									#38
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Tough call. At least in my mind. But, then again, I'm a bit of a stickler for remaining as close as possible to the game's original intent.

In single player, you see the opposing factions move their units, including the probe teams. When they steal one of your techs, even at vendetta, you get a notice of which tech they stole. Therefore, a strict interpretation might call for you to do the gentlemanly thing, and notify the opponent, that you have stolen the tech.

However, most players will probably not feel so constrained, nor will expect that it would be necessary to warn the probed player. The consensus should be sought, by the players of the particular game, on how they want to handle the situation.

In cases where I've stolen techs from factions with whom I'm at vendetta, I generally inform them through some sort of in-game propaganda. However, I don't let them know which base, I stole the tech from. If they have infiltrator status on me, I may neglect to inform them directly, as I assume that they are dutifully checking my capabilities, with each turn.

	25-04-2000 03:46									#39
	Inflate your Upload Space

I agree completely with JAMiAM on the principles, but by the tournament rules as written you are not required to give any notification except when the action causes a vendetta (and there is not already one going on). So not in your case, Misotu.

	25-04-2000 04:00									#40
	Inflate your Upload Space

Thanks to both for the replies. As it happens, I did inform the person concerned (after a couple of turns ) but it's good to have the situation clarified.

	17-05-2000 13:23									#41
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

I'm a relative newbie in pbem games and I have a few questions about the 'ethics' of certain actions and some interpretations of the rules.

First off, my stance so far is that 'everything that is not explicitly addressed as illegal and which is not an obvious bug to exploit is legal and ok to do'. Is that attitude shared here, or are there still actions which are not explicitly forbidden, but still considered unethical and should be avoided here?
I really want to avoid being called a twink or cheater, but I do want to take advantage of the options I have.

Now to the specific points:

It has been agreed on that reloading the same move after it has been sent off is ok. As an addendum, I have just heard from TC that reloading the same turn for the purpose of aborting the game and seeing the map in the quick replay should not be done. That's a new rule to be established, right?

Is switching SE's over two turns for the purpose of increasing the values of crawlers and then rushing SP's ok?
(Example: Switch to power, dump all your crawlers into an SP, then switch back to Wealth the next turn.) Is there some hard line of what's allowed to do with SE switches and what not (besides the rule of no double SE switching in one round), or should we rely on 'what we think is ok'?

Is upgrading crawlers for the purpose of gaining more minerals for your SP out of one crawler ok? Or is that banned?

Do the probe restrictions of the rules also count for probing the AI?

Since I cannot make chose to declare Vendetta in every situation, what do I do if I really want to probe a pacted/treated faction and would even accept a declaration of vendetta as a consequence? Is it ok if I just let the player know?

Since the rules speak of permission to probe them, can they refuse this permission? What choices do I have in such a case?

Those are all the points I can think of at the moment.
-joer.

	17-05-2000 18:24									#42
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

My personal thoughts on this, not to be considered official rulings:

quote: my stance so far is that 'everything that is not explicitly addressed as illegal and which is not an obvious bug to exploit is legal and ok to do'.

In general, this looks sensible. However, I would say that if you find something that you yourself consider questionable or greyish, you probably should not just go ahead and do it; the best course would probably be to ask the other players what they think. Of course, that is not always possible...

quote: Is switching SE's over two turns for the purpose of increasing the values of crawlers and then rushing SP's ok? (Example: Switch to power, dump all your crawlers into an SP, then switch back to Wealth the next turn.)

Somewhat grey area, but after all, if you do it over two turns, you do not get it for free, but have to pay for the two switches and suffer the effects of sub-optimal SE for one full turn. So I would say it is OK.

quote: Is there some hard line of what's allowed to do with SE switches and what not (besides the rule of no double SE switching in one round), or should we rely on 'what we think is ok'?

The only other abuse I can think of is changing your SE just before you call up one of the AIs, and that is taken care of by the no double-switch rule. Is there anything specific you are wondering about?

quote: Is upgrading crawlers for the purpose of gaining more minerals for your SP out of one crawler ok? Or is that banned?

Opinions are divided on this one. Sure, you get the minerals more cheaply than you would by buying the SP itself, but the upgrade costs follow the standard formula. I think it is OK.

quote: Do the probe restrictions of the rules also count for probing the AI?

No. The AI always knows it is being probed and will react accordingly. The player does not have to do anything there.

quote: Since I cannot make chose to declare Vendetta in every situation,

When can you not do that? As far as I know, you get that option for every probe action except infiltration, which is not cause for Vendetta anyway.

quote: what do I do if I really want to probe a pacted/treated faction and would even accept a declaration of vendetta as a consequence?

Probe them and choose the declare vendetta option, AND let them know. I cannot remember right now if the latter part is in the rules, but it should be.

quote: Is it ok if I just let the player know?

Only if you got permission in advance.

quote: Since the rules speak of permission to probe them, can they refuse this permission? What choices do I have in such a case?

They can, and if so, you can either not probe them, or probe them anyway and choose the declare vendetta option that appears.

I am not sure if you understand the rules completely here. You do not need to ask anyone's permission before probing them; that is only needed if you want to probe them without it causing Vendetta. Such permissions will be rare. You also do not need to declare vendetta before probing someone, all you need to do is choose the 'declare Vendetta' option from the menu that shows up after your action. The reason for this rule is that 1) This menu only appears on your turn, not your opponent's, and 2) Your opponent is not in any way informed by the game that you have probed him.

	17-05-2000 18:38									#43
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Thanks for the clarification, Tau Ceti.

I indeed did not know exactly what happened when you probed a treatied/pacted faction. I thought the option would just get lost, rather than be sent to the wrong player. I guess that answers the last batch of my questions.
-joer.