24-03-2000 18:55									#31
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

lozina@cyburban.com

	24-03-2000 20:15									#32
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Better late than never, please keep me up to date...

ccsfort@earthlink.net

	24-03-2000 21:32									#33
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

ajwoody@yahoo.com

	30-03-2000 19:40									#34
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Better late than never is right!

fjohnson@diametrics.com

	03-04-2000 04:02									#35
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Sign me up, please
I hope it's not too late...

jgv@fiera.com

	16-04-2000 05:43									#36
	Get a bigger avatar today!

I'm already addicted to Civ3.
Please keep me posted on any news.
warvoid@aol.com

	16-04-2000 07:36									#37
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

gord@ngent.com

	16-04-2000 07:59									#38
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Whatever happened to EC3? Did I miss the final vote on whether we liked the result? Did it get sent to Firaxis or not? Sorry if I'm the ignoramus...

- MKL

	17-04-2000 05:13									#39
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

eljoelna@hotmail.com

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C'est dur etre bébé

	23-04-2000 13:22									#40
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Tspro@Nettilinja.fi

	23-04-2000 19:44									#41
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

krauter@uol.com.br

I started the forum "Renewable Energies"
at "General Suggestions" - can
anyone help me to bring these ideas to
someone form FIRAXIS ?
<font size=1 face=Arial color=444444>[This message has been edited by krauter (edited April 23, 2000).]</font>

	23-04-2000 20:41									#42
	Remove this text

Sign me up too, please!

	23-04-2000 20:41									#43
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Sign me up too, please!

otso83@sci.fi

	26-04-2000 14:59									#44
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Funny, I never received a single e-mail about this argument.

Is someone taking care of it or should we consider this a dead thread? (If the latter, please close it: it's only a "noise" source ).



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Adm.Naismith AKA mcostant

	26-04-2000 16:03									#45
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Anyone care to answer my question? What happened in the end?

- MKL

	26-04-2000 23:56									#46
	Tired of ads?

well during the final week of the EC3 my schedule starting getting very very very busy then right after i had cunted the votes and put them into a list format i went from working 10 hours a week to 40 and i was still putting in like 30 hours a week with school i asked for somebody anybody to write a cover letter for the EC3 list and send it out...i then disappeared for like two weeks and then for another two weeks my access was limited

so i do not know myself what happened...if it was sent out or not

if it was not sent out things have settled down for me and i will write the cover letter if MarkG will still send it

korn469

	27-04-2000 01:20									#47
	Tired of ads?

sending the mail has been one of the things I was saying "I'll do today" in the morning and "I'll do it tomorrow" at the end of the day....

Send me the cover letter and I'll do the mailing...

	27-04-2000 01:31									#48
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

ok i gotta goto class in 30 minutes and take a test then listen to a two hour long lecture but i will send you the cover letter tonight before i goto bed (which might be much later) but we'll get this bad boy off to firaxis

korn469

p.s. this is my 1000th post! i am now a king!

	27-04-2000 01:33									#49
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

hmmm 1000 posts and still not a king? does it take 1001 pots?

	27-04-2000 06:47									#50
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I didn't think I ever heard a conclusion to it all. This explains why. Just seems strange that after all that work it was never followed up. Not that I'm having a go at you guys, of course. If you're busy, you're busy. If I had've realised that you were that desperate for a cover letter I would have done it. All good in hindsight, I guess .

Was there ever a final vote though? It's too long ago now to bother, but just curious... Did we decide it wasn't neccessary?

- MKL
<font size=1 face=Arial color=444444>[This message has been edited by MidKnight Lament (edited April 26, 2000).]</font>

	27-04-2000 06:52									#51
	Suffering from ads?

Yeah, it'll do that. Not sure if you need a few more posts, or whether you need a bit of time for the system to catch up, but it'll get there. Congrats too Rankings don't mean much for a lot of people because they spam their way there, but you've done plenty of hard work. A well deserved promotion.

- MKL

	27-04-2000 12:50									#52
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

the cover page was sent to MarkG, so now he can send the EC3 list on to firaxis

here is the cover page

<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font>The EC3 List

Almost every single fan of the Civ genre has at one time or another sat down and thought to themselves, “wouldn’t it be great if firaxis put this feature in Civ3?” Everyone has their own little list of pet peeves that they want firaxis to include in Civ3, but we at Apolyton sat down and asked the question “what are the ideas that Civ3 needs to actually be Civ3?” This one question sparked many ideas and a great deal of discussion, and it spawned the EC3 list.
There is a derogatory name for Civ3 that has cropped up amongst the fans, that name is Civ2.5. The term Civ2.5 represents all of the fears of the Civ community. It represents the fear that Civ3 will be rushed out the door bug ridden before it is ready. It represents the fear that Civ3 will not be innovative, that it will not take the Civ genre to new heights but will simply be a carbon copy of Civ2. Civ2.5 represents the fear that Civ3 won’t be the game it could have been. It is a very bad term. Every single fan rejects the idea of Civ2.5, we are all hoping for Civ3. The EC3 list is about ideas that could help the designers of the game get a feel for what innovations the fans consider essential to Civ3. The EC3 took the pulse of the fans, to see what they want in order to help the Civ3 team at firaxis make this game as good as it possibly could be.
We all have faith in the Civ3 team but even the best and brightest can’t possibly think of every good idea on their own. We feel that the Civ3 fans are a great resource for ideas, just take a look at The Apolyton List of Ideas, it’s a huge list of good ideas. However, the EC3 is not about including every single idea we could possibly think of, it is about including only the most essential ideas in one List for the Civ3 team to look over.
We sat down for weeks in a democratic process where anyone who wanted to could submit one idea to the EC3 list. The important thing is that each person could only include one idea, so we hoped that it would be the most important idea they could think of. These ideas were divided into two categories, New Ideas and Fixes. Both are fairly self-explanatory, but in a nutshell, the New Ideas were concepts that hadn’t ever been in a Civ game before, while Fixes were radical changes made within the existing framework of Civ. All of the ideas had to be explained in Civ2 concepts so everybody could understand, and after we received all of the ideas we wrote up the final drafts and voted on them.
After the voting wrapped up, we put all of the ideas into a list determined by the votes each idea received. All of this was done in an open and democratic process and although things were confusing at times, there were never any complaints about the democratic methods used to make the EC3 List. We are not trying to design Civ3 by committee, far from it. We are trying to inspire the Civ3 team and direct their attentions to the most pressing areas of the game, those areas that need the most improvement and innovation. Many good ideas came out of the EC3 List, and it would be an honor for any of those ideas to be taken and placed in Civ3 without any changes, but that is not expected. All we expect is that Civ3 will be as good as the Civ games that have come before it. If Civ3 is going to do that it needs to press ahead and expand gameplay, and many of the ideas in the EC3 List would really push the boundaries. In closing, think of the EC3 List as a set of cliff notes on which areas of gameplay demand the most innovation in the minds of the fans.
Here is the EC3 List. The numbers out to the side of each idea is the number of votes that idea received, and all of the ideas are linked to their final draft.
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>

korn469

	28-04-2000 05:55									#53
	Remove this text

Good stuff.

One small ammendment I'd make if it hasn't been sent off already - Make sure that we capitalise "firaxis".

- MKL
<font size=1 face=Arial color=444444>[This message has been edited by MidKnight Lament (edited April 27, 2000).]</font>

	04-05-2000 22:12									#54
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

here's something i got in the mail today from markg

<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font>Kelley Gilmore wrote:
>
> Hi again Markos.
>
> Can you tell me how many people participated in the making of the EC3? It's
> a really interesting list...you guys are awesome!
>
> Kelley Gilmore
> Communications Manager
> FIRAXIS Games
> (410) 891-3001 x131
>

Hi Kelley,

thanks for the kind words, they mean a lot

In the final stage we had around 140-150 people voting. There were a
total of 25 participating ideas. There were more ideas which did not
participate because those who initially suggested them did not send a
final draft. I cant have a number on the total of the people who
participated in the process(suggestions of ideas, discussions, voting),
but all the discussions together(which can be found at http://apolyton.net/cgi-bin/ubb/forumdisplay.cgi?action=topics&number=28
) were over 1000 posts based on a quick calculation

Perhaps Korn469(commiextc@hotmail.com) who was one of the main
organizers has more details...

happy civin'
Markos Giannopoulos | markg@apolyton.net
Apolyton Civilization Site | http://apolyton.net
A GameStats Affiliate | http://www.gamestats.com
Personal Page | <A HREF=/forums/"http:/egnatia.ee.auth.gr/~markg
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>" TARGET=_blank>http://egnatia.ee.auth.gr/~markg[/quote]</A>

korn469

	05-05-2000 07:07									#55
	Remove this text

Coooooooooooooooool! I feel appreciated.

- MKL

	05-05-2000 11:22									#56
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Sign me up too.
ay527@torfree.net
<font size=1 face=Arial color=444444>[This message has been edited by AlexanderIII (edited May 05, 2000).]</font>

	13-05-2000 00:39									#57
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Choco61017@aol.com

Christantine909@aol.com

	14-05-2000 23:05									#58
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

OrangeSfwr@aol.com
(::sigh:: yes I know, AOL)

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~~~I am who I am, who I am - but who am I?~~~

	23-05-2000 13:09									#59
	Support Apolyton

I guess I should consider myself signed up then...

	28-05-2000 02:50									#60
	Suffering from ads?

I love mailing lists...

m.meads@home.com

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"We are all greater artists than we realize."
-Nietzsche
<font size=1 face=Arial color=444444>[This message has been edited by Spekter@Home (edited May 27, 2000).]</font>