12-04-2000 17:23									#61
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

While I can understand how many might think that the first example violates the spirit of the game... I just can't see how the second one does. Many people micromanage their "workers" in every city for every turn to maximize what the city needs. Increasing the trade in both cities to maximize the bonus seems legit to me. Conversely, if an AI or enemy civ in MP is ready to establish a trade route to one of my cities, I might minimize trade to keep his science and trade bonus lower.

Now, after saying this... one of the things that really slows down a MP game is when people do this. It is not something you can do between turns... so it must be done during your turn. Once a player starts really rolling on caravans/freights, this can add a ton of time to his turn.

	13-04-2000 03:52									#62
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

"If you take an air unit, and move it onto a hut square, then the hut disappears. This could be used to 'remove' huts close to one of your enemy's cities."

This is actually described in the manual, as the air unit "frightens" the villagers and they abandon the area. What you describe is more of a tactic than a cheat, IMHO.

"When you start a game as a civ, such as the Americans, and build a few cities. Let's say
Washington and New York. Then quit, then start another game as the Americans, it will try to name your first city Boston, then Philadelphia. Neither of thes are useful, and they don't appear in most games, but they happen."

This won't happen if you quit Civ2 entirely, back to the desktop. If you quit only to the main screen, then you'll encounter this problem. Very annoying.

-----------------

Theben
Co-Moderator of the Civ3 Forums

	15-04-2000 05:23									#63
	Tired of ads?

Theben:

Sorry. Never had time to read the whole manual, and I never saw that part .



------------------
adaMada
adamada@springmail.com

	25-04-2000 18:50									#64
	Full PM-box? Change here!

<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font><font size=1>Originally posted by Xin Yu on 01-30-2000 07:34 PM</font>
While more details still need to be tested, one more bug is found and confirmed once. You can use 'w' key to put your airplanes on the air on hold and move other units, then use 'Ctrl-n' to end the current turn. The planes won't crash.
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>

It seems like this same trick can be used to keep your ships from being lost at sea early in the game. If you move your ships just two squares, hit wait, and then do a Ctrl-n to end the turn, they will not sink. The problem with this one is, it would be very difficult to detect in an MP game... sigh.

	02-05-2000 01:48									#65
	Suffering from ads?

One of the biggest bugs that i have found and reported several months ago, is later in the game when you give someone 5 or 10 cash, it increases there money by the total amount of money they made in that turn This is a very very critical bug.

	03-05-2000 17:15									#66
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Yeah... While reading through the old threads in the MP section before deleting a bunch of them, I ran across your thread on the subject. It surprised me that nobody really noticed or commented. I must have missed it completely. A couple of weeks ago, Xin Yu posted it, and it got a little more visibility. It doesn't seem to work all the time, and the amount of money you get seems to vary. But you are right, what a critical bug... free money can make ALL THE DIFFERENCE in an MP game!

	05-05-2000 15:53									#67
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Just popping in for a moment.
Did you guys already have that thing where you can investigate an enemy city using a diplomat/spy and while you're there you can rename the city? I've gotten into the habit of doing this to cities I plan to take over.
<font size=1 face=Arial color=444444>[This message has been edited by Father Beast (edited May 05, 2000).]</font>

	12-05-2000 03:42									#68
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Hey, you beat me to it

Also, I just saw another civ move a horseman in territory that I hadn't explored.
Here were the circumstances. I was playing SP as the Germans, and then the Celts found me with a horseman. Then I saw another Celtic horseman move in unexplored (black)territory. I sent a ship by where I saw it move, and came right into the middle of the Celtic continent.

	15-05-2000 06:55									#69
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

And I really thought it was bad starts that were giving me a hard time.

I did know about some of these cheats but not all of them. I've never had a spaceship successful land before 2010. I've never had a score anywhere near a record. I always played/play against the AI with fast games. The whole game played in 1 or 2 days (like 4 hours total). Than MP came along and I found myself having to play my best game every single freaking stupid turn. Why? Because everyone does the things listed here in this thread. Yes, say what you want but I've played with many here and everyone cheats. I've even used the two PC, peek at maps during play before with... don't make me say who! When people get into a tight spot they will do whatever it takes to win. Thats why we play MP - we like to win. MP is so full of bugs it's not worth it. Could I land a ship before 1900? Could I do OCC? Probably, just never bothered before. I play MP the same way, fast. Those of you who have played MP with me know this. You don't see 'Savages turn' up there very long. Some of you take sooooo long (I'm sure taking advantage of every single little loophole), it's just not fun. It just goes to show what a good start can do for you. Some games I can keep up with the best players (best players... ?? what does that mean?).

MWHC - waiting for CIV III.
<font size=1 face=Arial color=444444>[This message has been edited by My Wife Hates CIV (edited May 14, 2000).]</font>

	17-05-2000 05:09									#70
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

There is one other problem that needs to be fixed. The use of a third party program heap editor to change values during the game. There should be a method of checksums to see if a value is even possible. Items that I know for a fact can be modified during game play:
Money
Stored Science Beakers
City Shields
City Food
City Improvements (Not only adding improvements, but removing them from someone else)
The Random Number Seed (Always get a set result when a hut is opened)
The Terrain (Yes, the map and map improvements can be changed DURING a game)
Ressurrect Dead Units (Units are never removed from the full list)
Change Unit attributes
Speed Settler (A Settler/Engineer can be made to perform any task instantly)
Change Unit ownership
Change City Ownership

The game should check to see if any of these types of activities has occured.

P.S. Don't write me asking how to do any of the above. I hate cheating and would rather see it stop, not proliferate.

	17-05-2000 05:23									#71
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

As some have said, play with those you know and those extreme problems of cheating will not be a problem. That's why I don't play with anyone who has the eyes of a cheater.

	04-06-2000 00:49									#72
	Get a bigger avatar today!

You can move a ship onto an inland square. What you do is you build a city, move the ship in, and buy an engineers. Then the ship will stay on the land square, and the city will be gone. Then build another city, farther inland, and move the ship in. Buy an engineer, and the ship will end up two squares away from the sea. Repeat until your ship is far enough inland. This cheat can make an invincible stack. (How are you going to destroy a vet battleship and a vet AEGIS cruiser five squares inland in a fort on a mountain?) We came up with it in the strategy forum a while ago.

	04-06-2000 00:54									#73
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

The thread is here
<font size=1 face=Arial color=444444>[This message has been edited by SilverDragon (edited June 03, 2000).]</font>

	08-06-2000 18:06									#74
	Get a bigger avatar today!

It's amazing that after all this time, people are still coming up with new "tricks".
This last one is a classic.

So keep them coming people. I want to thank everybody that has helped make this thread a good resource for civ players!

	09-06-2000 03:10									#75
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

haven't seen anyone mention this one yet - if you find the wrap around point in a round map, you can found a city on each side of it and both can use all overlapping spaces at the same time

edit: oops - side note - i was following links from the civ 2 forums - didn't see i was in Civ3 - no idea if that bug still holds
<font size=1 face=Arial color=444444>[This message has been edited by SCG (edited June 08, 2000).]</font>

	15-06-2000 19:01									#76
	Support Apolyton

Ming, is your intent to also document AI cheats? If not, let me know and just delete this post.

Some of the more obvious and annoying AI cheats:

1) AI Triremes never sink.
2) AI can switch gov'ts with no period of Anarchy.
3) AI Democracies cannot be made to collapse.
4) AI can bribe units with any unit. This is especially annoying in scenarios where diplomacy units are purposefully not included.
5) AI has an unlimited supply of Cruise Missiles when your Battleship or Carrier comes close by.
6) AI knows which cities have SDI without needing to investigate first.
7) AI Bombers don't crash if they don't return to a city at the end of their second turn out.

The below are lesser AI cheats and may legitimately be considered part of the handicap that the AI gets at certain difficulty levels:

1) AI seems to know where all my cities are without exploring first.
2) AI can partially buy shields to speed up production.
3) AI can instantly build units in the same turn when it discovers the tech.
4) AI can instantly move its capital.
5) AI has fewer columns in the shield box at higher difficulty levels.
6) AI can sue for peace in the middle of my turn.
7) AI can overlap a city with mine and demand that I remove my units in the overlapped region.
8) AI can declare war and refuse peace when in Democracry.
9) AI barbarians can stuff 4 or more units on a Frigate that should only be able to hold 2 units.

	27-06-2000 18:40									#77
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Sieve Too... That wasn't my intent with the original thread. Since this was originally meant to let the designers know how we were abusing the game, I assumed they already knew how bad the AI cheated

But since that job is really done, this now is meant to provide a list for those that play. So thanks for adding your AI cheat list for those that aren't aware of how they can be cheated by the AI during a game...

	07-07-2000 17:29									#78
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Just one last AI annoying handicap.
I've seen the AI units violate ZOC rules to grab a hut.

RAH

	13-07-2000 23:04									#79
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Not exactly a cheat, but a weird bug that could hurt you early on...

If you build a city on a single square out in the middle of the ocean as a future airbase/supply center, you could conceivably have a problem. This square would have to have no borders except the ocean. If you put a trireme inside the city, it can be ***lost at sea***. I guess there is ***coast*** around your city, even if your trireme is safely stuck in dock!

I didn't have units in the trireme at the time, so I don't know whether the units were also ***lost at sea*** or whether they just became the garrison.

Needless to say, I was suppressed.

	21-07-2000 18:04									#80
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Someone mentioned that one before... I think you need to fortify or put the ship to sleep to keep it from sinking... It's been a while, so I really don't remember

	27-07-2000 01:40									#81
	Get a bigger avatar today!

OK I haven't passed through the whole list but there is one thing I've noticed :

no one does seem to know the Airfield cheat .

I dunno , maybe I am using an old version or something or maybe it's common knowledge but:

if you build Airfields over mined hills it gives you both the advantage of the mining and it also gives you farmland (well you dont see it but try to work that tile with a city ; look at the output : 4 shield 3 food.)


am I the naive guy who's just discovered this ?



------------------
Prepare to Land !

	27-07-2000 15:59									#82
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Check section 8.1 in the first post to this thread

	08-08-2000 15:48									#83
	Tired of ads?

species8474... I tried to check this one out again... and still no luck. Do you remember the circumstances of when it worked? And again, were you the host?

Any information would help... Thanks!

	09-08-2000 22:52									#84
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Ming: he mentioned that he could not host.

Here's what I feel to be a possible reason: The map must be round and of a certain size that near the edge (0 column) of the map two huts occupy the same position (just like two cities share one square). When your unit enters the square one of the huts is opened but another is still there. As far as you don't move the unit out, next time when another unit enters the square the first hut get opened again so you have unlimited huts.

Drinking too much....

	24-08-2000 09:26									#85
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Well done Ming !!!

I don't think this is a cheat, simply a design program flaw -

if you build 2 cities on either side of the 0° meridian, they will both benifit from overlapping city radius squares at the same time. Most randomly generated maps have only open ocean on the 0° meridian.

	28-09-2000 20:43									#86
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

I knew that one worked in Civ II (and I should have added it to the original list a long time ago)
But I'm not sure it works in MP. I'll have to try that.

	16-01-2001 00:43									#87
	Support Apolyton

<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font><font size=1>Originally posted by Sten Sture on 11-30-1999 03:57 PM</font>
Makeo's Capital - Just in case he doesn't post it here, I'll go ahead and type it up.

In a recent MP game a player moved his capital to a size one city with just one defender close to his rivals border after launching a spaceship to AC. The capital city was thus easily destroyed but not CAPTURED, so the spaceship continued on its merry way to AC, and the opponent was left with no ability to arrest its flight. This seems counterintuitive and sounds like design oversight.
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>

Yes. It would be even more easy to destroy the city yourself, that means, to buy an engineer from it.