19-01-2001 10:49									#31
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One annying thing I noticed in the diplomod is that when I exchange an advance with the AI for gold I do not get any gold. I think they got my advance so they cheated.

I don't know if this is a bug in the game or in your mod cause I never tried exhanging advances for gold with the AI before.

Maybe it is just my version or something so I would like to have it confirmed. Otherwise I will have to reinstall the game/mod.

Keep up the good work. Looking forward to v. 3.0

GreatDane

	19-01-2001 06:16									#32
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I'll probably wait until version 3.0 so that's my vote. (But just in case - in which files would I change the numplayers and the considerdiplo.... statements?)
P.S Thanks for all the effort. Sounds good and I look forward.
P.P.S It might be a while before you see any mods from me, being a beagle of little programming ability. For example. I was trying to do a bit of tweaking the other day and couldn't figure out why I was crashing. Then I realized I had left Net Nanny on and she had edited out all the "naughty bits", like "bomb_cabinet".

	19-01-2001 16:42									#34
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Nice site, Omnigod. There needs to be a central place where people can go to try out all the new things being worked on.

Dale, I would be very interested in seeing your mod once you are a little further along in it. Are you just adjusting the original text files, or are you making slic for all this?

	19-01-2001 18:52									#35
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Hi Dale,

quote:
P.P.S It might be a while before you see any mods from me, being a beagle of little programming ability. For example. I was trying to do a bit of tweaking the other day and couldn't figure out why I was crashing. Then I realized I had left Net Nanny on and she had edited out all the "naughty bits", like "bomb_cabinet".

That was very funny! Computers, you gotta love them!

Timothy Pintello

	19-01-2001 23:36									#36
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Hi,

I'm rathern new on the block here but that solution to the array out of bounds error don't work when you take away the + 5.

In the for statements you have to change DIP_civ1 to player[DIP_civ1] and you have to change all of these statements !
This is a simple C programming language error...you have to let the SLIC know which array it's about !
The player array !

But having changed this leaves me with a new error. To many arguments in ConsiderDiplomaticState.

What the heck is this ? How do I solve this.

	22-01-2001 04:53									#37
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If you didn't see my post in the Activision statement post, then I'll repeat myself here.

I'm very pissed off with the support we've received for CTP2. While a good game, the glaring problems will not be addresses (namely diplomacy and AI ferocity). In response to the frustration I'm facing in trying to get the AI to perform diplomacy, I'm putting Diplomod V3.0 on the shelf. If I don't have anything else to do, I may go into it. But considering how many crashes I get with patch 1.1, and the fact that the unpatched CTP2 has almost no diplomacy SLIC available, I doubt very much that I'll continue. Thanks for your support though.

Except for the fact the AI will NEVER make a treaty or alliance (because of the internal programming settings and there is no SLIC to force a proposal/acceptance), I actually had a pretty decent AI diplomacy model working. But without treatys or alliances between AI's, what's the point of using diplomacy? These two options make diplomacy, not all the others which I have working well.

PS. If there is interest for the AI diplomacy script that I do have working, then let me know and I'll send it to Rich to update his link on V2.2.

Wes, it's a SLIC script, not just txt file changes.

------------------
Author of Diplomod. The mod to fix diplomacy.

Rommell to a sub-commander outside Tobruk: "Those Australians are in there somewhere. But where? Let's advance and wait till they shoot, then shoot back."

	22-01-2001 05:12									#38
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Dale, please do not give up your efforts. I just installed your diplomod into my modern era scenario today. I already had treaties setup, and the game was going awesome. I was playing as the indians. After a few turns, the EU declared war on russia, and the next turn 4 other nations declared war on russia as well.

	22-01-2001 05:36									#39
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yeah, Dale, dont give up!
i believe we have a lot to find out on what we can do with ctp2!

	22-01-2001 05:54									#40
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I agree with Mark there.. there is potential for this game, and we'll find all the things that we can change, and maybe MrOgre will pop back, once he's had a nice rest, and give us a little guidance or someone else will find part of your solution... there's enough of us, we should be able to improve this considerably.

rich

	22-01-2001 06:10									#41
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speaking about discovering things...
check out my last post in the thread about the medieval mod: an experiment with the gamefile.txt

	22-01-2001 13:31									#42
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Hey,

I've tried Diplomod and it was great...for the first time since I bought the game I actually thought that it had some kind of intelligence.

It activelly seeked out my civ and made diplomacy it's priority instead of conquest.
Also it's extremely good in making contact and diplomacy with other civ's now.

If you quit it will be a dark day in the history of CTP2, a day in which the players said : "The game sucks but we will make it work !".
I hope sincerely that you continue your work !

greetings, a big fan of diplomod

	22-01-2001 18:43									#43
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Dale - are you posting version 3.0 at all ?

And thanks for your work on this mod

	23-01-2001 00:48									#44
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Here's a question I hope someone can answer.
Is it possible to use the diplomod in the MedMod2 mod ?

If so, how do I go about doing it?

	23-01-2001 04:16									#45
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Okay, thanks to a heap of emails and the comments here in the forums, I've been pressured back into finishing V3.0

Here's where it stands right now:
1 - The AI's will swap maps.
2 - The AI's will buy advances from each other.
3 - The code is in there (but the stupid internal programming of the game will never allow the AI to do it) for AI's to make peace-treatys, trade pacts and research pacts.
4 - The AI will use three different AI-Human diplomatic states (friendly, war and default) and a special AI-AI state (regard penalties don't hit so hard).
5 - The AI doesn't refuse everything by default (like in V2).
6 - The AI is more demanding of Human players (give me this, give me that, etc).
7 - I still need to code in withdraw troops and a couple of 'catch' commands. I left them out so I could test at this point. Eg. The AI can make proposals to people it hasn't even met.
8 - Refining and bug catching also need to be done.

So I'm not that far off a Beta V3.0 Is there anyone who would like to beta-test for me? If so, email me and I'll send you the mod when it's ready for testing.

Thanks guys for your support.
Dale - dale.kent@mel.alphawest.com.au

------------------
Author of Diplomod. The mod to fix diplomacy.

Rommell to a sub-commander outside Tobruk: "Those Australians are in there somewhere. But where? Let's advance and wait till they shoot, then shoot back."

	23-01-2001 05:00									#47
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I cant understand why activision stopped treatys by a.i.s it sucks big time.So there will never be a.i treatys what a let down.

	23-01-2001 05:17									#48
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Dale, your mod sounds great. As you develop your mod, it would be a big help to everyone, yourself included, if you would try and keep track of which changes had which effects on the ai. I know that this can be quite difficult when dealing with diplomacy, but anything we can learn will help our efforts.

I look forward to using any progress you make with the text files in the Med mod, and perhaps the slic parts as well, eventually. I will probably wait until the other slic parts of the Med mod are in place first, though.

	23-01-2001 05:48									#49
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Good idea. I'd get a well-rounded AI first before trying anything with diplomacy.

I've got a history file in my mod that tracks changes and what they do. Does this cover it? If not I should be able to come up with something more detailed. Though a lot of my experimentations have ended in CTP2 crashing severely or hardware locking. Don't ask me how, but it can hardware lock on ya.

------------------
Author of Diplomod. The mod to fix diplomacy.

Rommell to a sub-commander outside Tobruk: "Those Australians are in there somewhere. But where? Let's advance and wait till they shoot, then shoot back."

	24-01-2001 02:06									#50
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as i said in the sec/mod forum, u made the AI somewhat too diplomatic

	24-01-2001 04:22									#51
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I've found the cause of all my crashes in the patched CTP2. It was occuring within the exchange advance for gold section. It appears that the bug within the diplomacy causes a program crash with my mod. I had to disable it and got no crashes after testing for over an hour (used to get a crash on average every five minutes of gameplay). I'll try to find a workaround, but I doubt I'll get anything to work properly. In the meantine, I'll have a beta of V3.0 ready tomorrow, and will email to the couple of replys I've had. If you want to help me test the diplomacy, let me know.

BTW, I've toned down (read that as refined ) the acceptance levels so that you can't just get everything from the AI. I'll try to get a proper withdraw troops going so the AI actually does retreat instead of fortifying in your territory. This (I hope) should also help the AI's in reaching their limitation of a turn-limit without troops in another AI's territory before requesting/accepting agreements.

------------------
Author of Diplomod. The mod to fix diplomacy.

Rommell to a sub-commander outside Tobruk: "Those Australians are in there somewhere. But where? Let's advance and wait till they shoot, then shoot back."

	24-01-2001 08:01									#52
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Dale, I had to take your mod out of my scenario for it to work. I kept getting an error, diplomod:39 array index 1 out of bounds. Might want to check that one out, I think that was the variable for # of players in a game, and since I have more than 8 it might create a problem somewhere.

	24-01-2001 08:25									#53
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Kormer, yeah I know of that one. V3.0 covers that bug.

------------------
Author of Diplomod. The mod to fix diplomacy.

Rommell to a sub-commander outside Tobruk: "Those Australians are in there somewhere. But where? Let's advance and wait till they shoot, then shoot back."

	24-01-2001 09:35									#54
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Odd, I wonder why it was working for me before. Oh well, guess it had to do with my other problems of the slic coding not working at all. Make sure to include my name on the list getting version 3.0 tomorrow.

	30-01-2001 23:22									#55
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Huge pat on the back to you Dale. I always admired those mod designers for the old Civ 2, but their work was as nothing compared to the challenge of getting CTP2 to behave more realistically. You are to be praised for the mere attempt, but the fact you have pulled it off to such wide aclaim is to your great credit. Thanks.

On to my (probably silly) question. If you make the science pact a part of the peace treaty (great idea btw, much more realistic) will it not mean that the science bug that gives the AI a new advance every turn or two be exaserbated?

	31-01-2001 04:04									#56
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John, thanks. You got me all embarrased now.

As to your research question:
The research bug is unfortunately inherited into the diplo script due to the fact it's internal to CTP2.EXE. This is the same for the advance-for-gold bug. Sorry folks.

------------------
Author of Diplomod. The mod to fix diplomacy.

Rommell to a sub-commander outside Tobruk: "Those Australians are in there somewhere. But where? Let's advance and wait till they shoot, then shoot back."

	31-01-2001 09:16									#57
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It is me or am I just a really evil person. No matter when I ask for an exchange of even the basics (ie maps) the AI say nope, not going to happen. If I'm the big guy, or the guy in dead last (which is lengthening in each game with frenzy and diplomod) they're not interested. The one thing that is great now is that when I say leave and give them a little something they'll leave and not come back for at least 10 turns, which is more than enough to beef up security. The other thing I noticed occurs only when the AI has a city right on my border is they are much more willing to give that city (but no other one) to keep the peace, even if I'm not strong just have maybe 3 units in the vicinity. This has never happened to me. I'd like to finish (yea it seems like and essay to me) with a hearty congrats to Dale... this has so improved the game and made it that much tougher even on Impossible or as my game now says DEITY That was like the first thing that I did, heck with the game, I want the old familiar titles I love this mod and combine it with frenzy and activision doesn't hold a candle to you guys... nice job.

Rich - one day they'll give me their maps again, one day

	01-02-2001 02:58									#58
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Rich thanks, but I'm gunna be even more evil than you.

V3.2 (which I'll send across now) will make it a little harder to get their maps. I've always thought it was too easy for a human player to get maps from an AI, even in previous civ-type games. Now there's only a 1% chance you'll get it.

MWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

BTW, how on earth did ya change the title to DEITY? I WANT IT!

------------------
Author of Diplomod. The mod to fix diplomacy.

Rommell to a sub-commander outside Tobruk: "Those Australians are in there somewhere. But where? Let's advance and wait till they shoot, then shoot back."

	01-02-2001 11:35									#59
	Inflate your Upload Space

As you guys pursue your various mods, keep in mind that the ultimate potential of CTP2 is still totally unknown. Those of us who poke around in the bowels of the ancient civ2 engine are still finding new ways to tweak the game. As an example, recent discoveries include:

1) Barbarian Wrath: A setting which creates Barbarian Hordes of between 80 and 100 units.
2) Amphibious units: A setting which allows units to travel on both land and sea.
3) Giga-maps: Maps 3 times larger than the supposed "upper limit".
4) Simultaneous Multiplayer: A setting which transforms Civ2 from turn-based to simultaneous move.
5) Life after Death: Events which allow two units to engage in combat, at the end of which neither unit is dead.

I could go on, but I think you get the point. Think big, think different, but above all never say never!

Note to John Barbarossa: Praising Einstein is OK, but one doesn't have to denigrate the work of Archimedes in the process.

	02-02-2001 02:27									#60
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Don't worry, I'm an Aussie. We always think bigger than we should.

All I need now is an idea for the AI. Anyone? Anyone?

------------------
Author of Diplomod. The mod to fix diplomacy.

Rommell to a sub-commander outside Tobruk: "Those Australians are in there somewhere. But where? Let's advance and wait till they shoot, then shoot back."