17-01-2001 10:26									#31
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I agree with you there on the canadians. I decided to sacrafice true city placement in favor of better gameplay, for example I moved toronto quite a ways west so it wouldn't scrunch into the other cities. My atlas only lists cities greater than 200,000 not including metro areas, so I didn't know what to add in newfoundland. I gave iceland to the Europeans, although with just a fort and an airport there. If I put a small city in greenland would it be appropriate to give iceland to canada? Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe greenland is technically part of denmark.

As for the forts...what do you expect from a half-ass project from activision? If you know a better way please share it.

	17-01-2001 10:41									#32
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I believe it is a part of denmark still, thus the proper owner would be Europe. IMO as for Canada, I'm not sure about game play over city placement. Nations including the US and Europe are very closely packed. Toronto is somewhere between Sudbury and Sault Ste. Marie in your map, IMO those are important Canadian cities for production and trade. I am going to start on the colonization scenario again. As for the fortress frenzy, I think I have a better solution, but I'll give it a try before I post anything on it... better to be cautious then give false hope

Rich
[This message has been edited by OmniGod (edited January 16, 2001).]

	17-01-2001 08:21									#33
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Well like I said, I was up till 3am just trying things until it worked. It kept crashing on me whenever I loaded more than 8 civs on your map until I think I export/imported the map and started over with 16 civs. After that I *think* I added cities, but deleted settlers of the specific nations that I wanted to use. Also, I never set any starting flags. There is a box called player choice that has all the civs on it, keep it on player choice and you should be able to choose which civ you are.

Status update: I'm adding city improvements now, this is taking quite a while to do. I should have that and units added before this weekend, then we can do some real playtesting and balance out the sides.

	17-01-2001 08:48									#34
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Southeast Asia sounds like a good idea to add. Also I hope your scenario will work with the diplomacy/frenzy mod. That would make things interesting. When you have an alpha or beta copy ready I will be glad to test it, also if you have the map I will take a look at it and see if I find any mistakes. Email it to me at jadlakha@houston.rr.com

	17-01-2001 09:04									#35
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Nevermind, I am an idiot. I should have payed attention to the fact that the alpha is at omnigod's webpage. Also there is a link to my email already anyways. Boy has it been a long day. I will check out the alpha and give you any suggestions I have when I actually have time to play it.

	17-01-2001 15:22									#36
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kormer, The Capital of Thailand is Bangkok the 2nd largest is Chaing Mai. We do have a place in history too.
The only country in South East Asia that is not conquest by the west. Lao, Combodia, part of Vietname, Malaysia,
Burma used to be long to Thailand.

	17-01-2001 21:11									#37
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Magma, sorry for leaving you out. Bankok will be included in the final version.

	18-01-2001 10:18									#38
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Thanks

	18-01-2001 03:47									#39
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Just an idea:

You might want to give Libya to the "bad boy muslim civ", if there are any cities there, because they run under a socialist republic/communist government.

Jonny

	18-01-2001 04:31									#40
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KEEP NUKE TECHNOLOGY IN THE GAME!!!!! I read the read me and it said nuke technology would not be in the scenario. I say keep it. Since research has been slowed then it will take a while for nations to get it anyways. And plus nuke building should be allowed by the nations with nukes already. Any country that can develop alot of technology can research nukes, and this should remain that way in the scenario.

	18-01-2001 04:57									#41
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Jonny, I do agree that libyia would probably fit in better with the "bad boy" muslim civ better. The only thing is there isn't anything in lybia, its just miles and miles of desert. For geographic reasons it made more sense to put them in the "good guy" muslim civ rather than have one "island" city in the middle of the enemy. Also the same could be said of pakistan and khazakstan going to the bad boy muslim civ so it all balances out.

JKadabomb, let me clarify. Countries that currently possess nuclear weapons will have nuclear weapons in the scenario. Certain of those countries may not have the technology to build more nukes though. For example, the only reason pakistan has nukes is because china gave them nukes. They are estimated to have no more than 30-40 nuclear devices compared to the US's 10 thousand. Their technology in producing nuclear weapons is not very sophistcated, and only takes place with the aid of chinese "supervisors" While more slightly more advanced, similar arguements can be said of india as well. You will start with enough nukes for a war, but not enough to wipe out the world.

Also the reason for not including nuke technology from the beginning for certain nations is because its in a bad spot on the tech tree, if someone wants to fix the tech tree then that would be different. I'll have to check, but I think india will only be 1 advance away from nuke technology so don't fret about it too much

	18-01-2001 05:18									#42
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Oh, thank you for clarifying. Actually I thought you totally excluded nukes from the tech tree. I didnt know that they could still be researched even though you dont start out with em at the beginning. Well thanx for the clarification. BTW how do you install the scenario and have you fixed the pollution problem?

	18-01-2001 05:47									#43
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Just go into the main ctp2 directory and unzip it. It should be something like c:\program files\activision\ctp2, mines in a different place though so I'm not sure.

Status update: Pollution has been added to the game, I'm nearly done placing city improvements and tile improvements for everyone. After that I'll place units and release a beta version to be playtested, possibly tonight, tomorrow for sure.

	18-01-2001 06:46									#44
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update then?

	21-01-2001 11:58									#45
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You all sound extremly racist in discussing this new mod. The entire African continent as barbarians, am I the only one theat sees this as dripping with racism. The entire world is embroiled in conflict(middle east, idonesia, india, balkans, etc.) ANd many nations though not in out right civil war face internal social and politcal strife (US included)! So I think we should avoid steryotyping the African continent as barabric, and coem to realize that though not as powerful militarily as their western counterparts they have a rich and storied culture and history.

WE should also avoid "good" and "bad" guys when discussin countries.

just my 2 cents

	21-01-2001 12:31									#46
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It's not racist here is why. There are 3 choices on how to represent Africa. One, put no cities or units there. Two, Make it part of a larger faction, or combine Africa into one faction. Three give it to the barbs. Keep in mind the number of factions allowed is VERY limited, so only important really world powers can be represented.

Each of these choices sucks. Leaving empty would just be totally dumb. Making Africa it's own faction would be idiotic, it is not unified at all and most of it would not belong to any larger power. So, I am guessing they will give some parts of it to other important powers and make some hot spot cities barbarian, since there really is no other choice.

	22-01-2001 00:34									#47
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Action and gameover, I'm sorry to say but you are both wrong.

Gameover, Go d/l the latest version from omnigod and you will see its not racist at all. First of all there are 2 african "legitimate" nations, the south african alliance, and the west african alliance. In the congo area I placed 2 barbarian cities to represent the civil wars constantly taking place in that region. Thats not racist, thats just the way things are there right now. Not all of africa is barbarian. Also if you look around the globe, I DID put in other barbarian cities. There is one in columbia, belgrade, chechnya, Sri Lanka, and East Timor in addition to the african barbarian cities. In my game I merely put barbarian nations in areas where there were strong seperatist movements which is hardly being racist.
As for "good guy" "bad guy" countries, I agree with you. However to make for interesting gameplay, you need to have a protaganist, and an antaganist. Having a muslim nation civ with terrorists around the world can be quite interesting. For example, if you play them, do you piss of the world and bio-infect cities everywhere, or do you try to improve relations and bring prosperity to your country.

Action, there are ways around the 8 civ game limit. In my scenario there will be 16 separate nations, which means in addition to the world powers, I can have more minor nations, such as 2 african nations.

I think when you see the completed version both of you will be very pleased with the way its turned out.

	23-01-2001 08:28									#48
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How far along is this scenario coming?

	23-01-2001 10:05									#49
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JKadabomb, As far as in-game modding goes its done. There are a few things like certain areas could use a little tweaking for where cities are placed, but its pretty much done. The alliance system is in place. All units, city improvements are also in place. I could post the game right now and call it finished and it would be just as good as the Civ2 21st century scenario. Thats not good enough for me though. I see a lot of cool things that I can do with slic and I'm trying my hardest to learn it. This past weekend I pretty much got frustrated over my problems with slic and shelved it for a few days. I have opening messages for every nation written up. I managed to get a message to popup if you played the americans, but it wouldn't work for any other nation no matter what I tried so I go fed up and thats where its at right now. Later this week I'm going to post a semi-final version and if anyone wants to take a look at my coding thus far and maybe fix it if they can. This game also needs some serious playtesting as I have yet to play the game for more than 4-5 years into it.

	24-01-2001 08:54									#50
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Release a second alpha and I can start doing some playtesting for you.

	24-01-2001 21:57									#51
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A beta version will be released tomorrow. I have some cleaning up to do with a few things and I would like to add a special event or 2 just for testing purposes.

	28-01-2001 17:13									#52
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You must Include Britain as a seperate country as its the 4th world power and it would also be good if you got someone like the argentinians to invade the falkland islands again

The Black Knight

	29-01-2001 08:18									#53
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The map I am playing on is too small for england. If it were an independant nation it would not be that big of a super-power, in fact, it would have been smaller than any nation in the world.

	29-01-2001 08:49									#54
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YOUR BETA ISNT POSTED ANYWHERE!!!!!! I HAVENT FOUND IT!!!!! (sorry for yelling)

	29-01-2001 09:30									#55
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I STILL CANT FIND YOUR BETA!!!!!!! Also make sure to implement the DiploAI 3.1. However another suggestion, dont know if this is a problem yet because I have not tested the beta, but out of curiousity is it possible to use slic code in scenarios which keeps Alliances permament, never can be broken except by Human player????? This will keep the AI with their alliances from the start and would be more realistic. Also it should be able to be broken when the human asks the ai to declare war on a civ and the AI agrees. Just a thought.

	30-01-2001 10:42									#56
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Sorry folks, I emailed it to omnigod last week for him to post on his website. I was away all weekend and couldn't check. I'll send out an email tonight with diplomod 3.1 included. Also, jkadabomb, I like your idea of permanent alliances, I am thinking about doing the same thing with governments as well, or at least make them last 5-10 years depending on which country you play.

	29-01-2001 23:08									#57
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I've been having email problems, but I believe they should be all worked out by now... I didn't receive it the other day, but will post it ASAP.

Thanks
Rich

	30-01-2001 03:45									#58
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How bout making programmed changes to governments once in a while, changes that happen automaticilly in a set amount of tiem, for example making a country change to communism after 10 years. Basically this would be like a special event. This would make the game more interesting, really this might be needed because of the retarted AI. Or better yet for example if the US captures China's capitol, The rest of China changes to democracy and creates a peace treaty with the US. So basically have special triggers for military. How bout a trigger where when the US capitol is captured, it disintegrates to tons of polluted tiles, and a third world country. That brings me to another thought, making pollution accurate around the world. Create polluted tiles in the locations of HEAVILY POLLUTED AREAS like Cherynobl or that lake in Russia where if you go near you die within 3or4 hours.

	30-01-2001 03:48									#59
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Try to implement the withdraw mod and Famous People of History mod(well do stuff with research very similar to this). Sorry if I am talking to much, I just believe their is huge amounts of potential in this scenario.

	16-02-2001 10:15									#60
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Hi, I was wondering where I could find this... Doesn't seem to be on King Aruther's Court or in the File DB. I was able to find your other scenario on KAC tho.

This sounds like a really good scenario, and I look forward to playing it.