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Jay Bee
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Valladolid, CA
Jan 1970
time: 06:14
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Waku, applying for something means little if the application makes no sense, does not follow the rules or, most importantly, is not succesful. Spain stupidly applied for years when it was absolutely obvious that her chances were nil.
A very important portion of Turkey's territory is in Europe. Istanbul was for several centuries one of most important cities of Europe.
Masis,
I am puzzled. Britain, Iceland and Ireland may not be attached to the continent but they are Europe nevertheless. This is the first time I hear something like this. Maybe that's the reason why Brits in general are so allergic to the thing Continental? 
Russia not being part of Europe.... I do not think a comment on this is needed... aside from the fact that Russia will never ever apply for EC membership.
PS. Soccer always sets examples. British federations, Iceland, Russia and Turkey are affiliated to the UEFA. Morocco does not and never will 
[This message has been edited by Jay Bee (edited May 06, 2001).]
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Masis
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London
May 1999
time: 05:14
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quote:
Originally posted by Henrik on 05-06-2001 12:58 PM
Iceland and Ireland are parts of Europe, Brittain is also a part of Europe
Turkey is part of Asia Minor and as long as they is occupying half of Cyprus they wont get near the Union.
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Sorry, but I would like to laugh at the idea that Iceland, Ireland and Britain are geographically part of Europe (which they are not-nitice the presence of seas seperating them from the continent) but I have to be serious on this matter.
Also, is Cyprus applying for membership of the EEC?
It to is geographically seperated from Europe by an enormous amount of sea (following the Waku theory that a country has to be geographically a part of Europe to be a member.
Personally I think it is nonsense in this era of glolbalisation to bother about how near a country is-rather how much a country matches the membership requirements such as a stable economy in wich case Turkey at the moment has not got a hope.
Yes, I know about the Cyprus question, do you think me, an Armenian, is ignorant of the Turkish governments behaviour and administration of its own country? Turkish people are as much opressed as non Turkish minorities within Turkey, the large amount of Gejikondus (shacks built during the night to aviod the ancient tax law that said a house built during the night can aviod paying taxes) inhabited by Muslim Turks is testimony to the general hopelessness of the Turkish government in seeing to the affairs of its countrymen.
The vast amount of Turkish citizens can find Christian ancestry in their family roots in which case they can rightfully claim to be legitimate citizens of Anatolia (not Asia Minor, an anachronistic Roman word).
As Christians, they were part of the powerful Roman (Byzantine-another false western word designed to insult the legitimate Empire to bolster the phonet 'Holy Roman Empire' which was neither Holy being strongly secularist in its behaviour and Roman being mostly German) Empire which continued the prestige of civilisation in Europe whilst the west squated under Frankish tyranny (except of course the comparitve tolerance of Al Andalus-to which this post is therefore highly relevent).
Therefore Turkey can claim to be a part of Europe, even I as an Armenian will seek to support Turkey whenever it's peoples are insulted as being some kind of sub-humans,(the same kind of western insults that caused the roman Empire of Constantinople to be called 'Byzantine' a word never used by the Romans to describe themselves, their City or their Empire) Armenians, Kurds and Greeks (Romans) are a part of the blood stock of modern Turkey, just as I am sure Berbers may be in the blood stock of a lot of Andalusians, yet does that make the Andalusians a foriegn sub-human people?
This reply may case a large amount of replies wich is a pity as the actual Topic subject is about Andulusian seperatism.
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MRP
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Masis
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London
May 1999
time: 05:14
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quote:
Originally posted by Waku on 05-06-2001 12:25 PM
Someone should explain to Maroc & Turkey that to be in Europe is a prerequisite since they have applied to become a member.
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Sorry Waku, but judging by the above quote, that is how you came across to me-meaning that aparently neither countries appear to be in Europe-which Turkey is.
A long speach explains better than a short sppeach it seems.
Turkeys real reason for being turned down as a member of the EEC (though it has a Customs Union) is real-politik, the economy.
Today 2,000,000 million Turkish Lira=£1 English Pound.
Following that, how are they expected to rebuilt the destroyed towns of Izmit (Nikomedia) and Adapazar ('Island Market')?
It can not really be due to Human Rights abuses as Norway and other Scandinavian countries have blood on their hands too-The Vikings (famous Viking torture 'the blood eagle' in which a person was tied to a stake, had their chest slit open and the ribs pulled apart).
Spain, alas, has also it's fair share of Human Rights abuses-The Inquisition + The conquest of the Americas leading to the enslavement of Thousands of Native Americans and the destruction of the MesoAmerican socieities.
France-major incedent that springs to mind is the great Terror folloing the Revolution, though their were always brutal suppresion of peasant revolts down the ages.
Germany-The Holocaust of non-German minorities.
Italy-The Roman Colosseum, probably the most disgusting creation ever made by man to kill fellow man and rare animals (which explains why their are no more Lions in the Middle-East)
Englans-The Higland Clearances (which explain why if you ever visit the Highlands of Scotland they are virtually empty of habitation, quite a contrast to the 18th century which records show a large population with growing industries)+ Plus the suppresion of the Irish Catholics + The destruction of the Welsh Kingdom + The horrors of the 100 years war in France + Atrocities commited against Indians such as the Amritsar massacre.
U.S.A-The Genocide of the Native Americans.
Certainly, I as an Armenian condem the Turkish government's behaviour towards us and also towards its own Muslim citizens, but other nations too have to face War Crimes and Human Rights abuses, so the notion that Turkey is prohibited from jioning the EEC due to such notions falls flat when you realise what other 'Developed' nation have done to become 'Developed'.
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MRP
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Masis
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London
May 1999
time: 05:14
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quote:
Originally posted by Masis on 05-06-2001 10:32 PM
Turkeys real reason for being turned down as a member of the EEC (though it has a Customs Union) is real-politik, the economy.
It can not really be due to Human Rights abuses as Norway and other Scandinavian countries have blood on their hands too-The Vikings (famous Viking torture 'the blood eagle' in which a person was tied to a stake, had their chest slit open and the ribs pulled apart).
Spain, alas, has also it's fair share of Human Rights abuses-The Inquisition + The conquest of the Americas leading to the enslavement of Thousands of Native Americans and the destruction of the MesoAmerican socieities.
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Apologies to Kindal and Henrik if by mentioning the Human Rights abuses of the Spaniards and Scandinavians I have touched a National Nerve within them.
Just because these atrocities happened in the so called past does not excuse the descendants to avoid admiting the Guilt of the Nation.
That is merely copying the stance of the Turkish government which wishes to blame the Ottomans for past atrocities, though the 'greatest' level of atrocites was committed by the Young Turk movement-the Kemalist nation of modern Turkey being it's heir.
I do not look passively at these atrocties as being a part of life, I look at them as a syndrome of the illness of Humanity.
Merely by stating the atrocities of your nations, I follow the saying of Our Lord Jesus Christ "You can not remove the piece of grit from your brother's eye when you have a log covering your eyes, first remove the log and then remove the grit from your brothers eyes".
This means that to criticise a fault of another is pointless when one has many fault to deal with first.
Have the now 'Christian' nations payed compensation to the few remaining minorites who have suffered under their rule?
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MRP
[This message has been edited by Masis (edited May 07, 2001).]
[This message has been edited by Masis (edited May 07, 2001).]
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kIndal
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de la taifa de Almería, Spain.
Oct 2000
time: 06:14
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As you haven´t reply in the new thread that I have opened, I will reply here 
I think you are very wrong, nobodies are blamed Turkish for the past atrocities, only for the actual ones, so when they were solved Turkey could be in EC.
I cannot speak about "vikings atrocities" but I think you only know the Black Legend of the Inquisition, there were Inquisition not only in Spain, too in France, England, Italy and other Catholic states, and Spanish Inquisition weren´t the worst, it killed less people in all its history that deads in the night of Sant Bartholomew in France. So speaks about others Spanish atrocities in the Middle Ages or when Romans or Visigoths,(that are some of them, but as all countries, nations and civilizations).
And don´t forget that is Turkey which want to enter in the EC, so Turkey must obey European rules, if they don´t want to be a EC´s member nobody will force them to do anything.
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06-05-2001 09:09
Although it's true that it might solve a lot of problems, not only the fidhing thing. 
). And wy are going to give C&M to Morroco then? English hasn´t returned Gibraltar to us when we formed part of the Union.
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