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Ever feel like you'd be present even if you never posted on a thread?
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SandMonkey
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At the risk of getting verbally b*tch slapped by Venger -
It's over man. Really. I read the whole thing. You made some good points, at first. But now all you do is try to make witty comebacks and belittle everyone. Through the first few posts you had some decent arguments. But after that, you just became a jackass. Earlier, someone said you belong in the OT. I now fully agree. And now i wait to get verbally bashed by Venger for expressing my opinion - **Gasp!** something this entire thread is based on...
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SandMonkey
"Shut up brain or I'll stab you with a qtip"
-Homer Simpson
"Ecky ecky ecky!"
"It's just a flesh wound!"
- Monty Python and the Holy Grail
Check out my 1602 A.D. site
edited for gramatical errors
[This message has been edited by SandMonkey (edited May 14, 2000).]
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Venger
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Keeper of the Can-O'Whoopass
Jan 1970
time: 23:12
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quote:
Originally posted by SandMonkey on 05-14-2000 12:42 AM
At the risk of getting verbally b*tch slapped by Venger -
It's over man. Really. I read the whole thing. You made some good points, at first. But now all you do is try to make witty comebacks and belittle everyone.
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Right, like in my reply to Shamrock, filled with off topic vitriol and personal attacks. Or my response to JERandall, where I couldn't get over someone disagreeing with me I had to just attack him over and over. Oh and in responding to cavebear and hydey. I jumped all over them too...
quote:
Through the first few posts you had some decent arguments. But after that, you just became a jackass.
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Hmm, should I respond in kind and use a witty comeback, so you can then whine in another post about personal insults? Yes, look Venger, you called SandMonkey a bad name. No Venger, it doesn't matter that he called you a jackass, because I don't read the parts you reply to, it only matters that you used a critical reply. Bad Venger, bad.
When admonishing someone for their behavior, it's best to not exhibit the failings you accuse others of.
quote:
Earlier, someone said you belong in the OT. I now fully agree.
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You're right, the validity of WLTYYYD has nothing to do with Civ, it fits better with whatever inane banter occurs in the off topic forums.
quote:
And now i wait to get verbally bashed by Venger for expressing my opinion - **Gasp!** something this entire thread is based on...
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I'm curious - if the thread is so distasteful, so unworthy of your time or participation, why take the time to bother replying in it? If it's all about Venger and wanting to attack people, why stoop so low as to get in the mud with me? Is it that you just can't resist the temptation to play hall monitor? You know, you can't ignore someone, you have to demonstrate your magnanimus maturity by correcting me, for my benefit.
Venger
P.S. I noticed you did not address whether you thought using WLTYYYD is a valid strategy or not. Now, that would seem to make your post OFF TOPIC. It did nothing but express your opinions about me, not about anything related to Civ. Ironic, no, complaining someone posts nothing but off topic attacks by posting an off topic attack?
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Venger
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Keeper of the Can-O'Whoopass
Jan 1970
time: 23:12
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quote:
Originally posted by Crustacian on 05-13-2000 11:06 PM
BTW Venger you once said that republic was necissary (as compared to WLPD which you said was not)in the beginning of this thread but it is not. In your oppinion it is, but you can have a challenge and play the ai as a despot all the way through if you want.... it is all the same thing. But if you did play the AI as a despot all the way through would you call every one who used rep or dem weak?
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No. I would consider someone who can win as a despot on DBM7 pretty damn skilled though! However, a government type I would not consider a crutch because the government can only be used a certain way - it is not a game effect.
quote:
The manual is a point of referance. A good argumant needs one that is mutually acceptable. By it your argument is completly lost. But you say you don't hold to it and even try to interpret the intent of the designers. Hardly anyone agrees with your interpritation, and that is for SP civ, not MP civ.
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As JERandall points out, it's not really possible to interpret the intent without finding and asking them.
As to agreement, that someone disagrees is no suprise. I would offer that some people have looked at this issue in a new way, and may over time come somewhat to the conclusion that WLTYYYD was designed to be an ends, not a means to an end.
quote:
I think an MP game with max lux settings of 20-30% would make an interesting variation, but 100% (tho never necissary to get WLPD results in my games) is allowable by the game if you have a govt that allows that much and have enough bucks to pay your expenses while you do.
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I'd probably say 40% as a good hard cap. If you bump to Rep early, sometimes you need it just to maintain order. By the late game 40% will give you WLTYYYD nearly in perpetuity, but it won't be as easy to make WLTYYYD occur wide with a large number of cities with a hard 40% cap.
Venger
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SandMonkey
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quote:
Originally posted by Venger on 05-14-2000 12:28 PM
P.S. I noticed you did not address whether you thought using WLTYYYD is a valid strategy or not. Now, that would seem to make your post OFF TOPIC. It did nothing but express your opinions about me, not about anything related to Civ. Ironic, no, complaining someone posts nothing but off topic attacks by posting an off topic attack?
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Correct me if i am wrong.. bu haven't 2 of your last 3 posts been off topic?
And if you want me to recite the things that everyone else has said... okay!
I don't feel it is a crutch b/c it was obviously designed into the game. you may feel it wasn't designed to be used to grow cities huge very quickly, but that is your opinion. only the game designer can tell you if that was intended or not.
And, for my final thought on this topic... instead of defending yourself against everyone, why don't you just respond the the quotes that are on the topic? I dunno, that would probably kill the thread... but hey, i don't know anything, so don't even bother listening to me...
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SandMonkey
"Shut up brain or I'll stab you with a qtip"
-Homer Simpson
"Ecky ecky ecky!"
"It's just a flesh wound!"
- Monty Python and the Holy Grail
Check out my 1602 A.D. site
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Oldman
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Livingstone, Lord Protector of London
Apr 2000
time: 05:12
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Please Mr Ming, Sir...
Do we still have the 150 post limit on these threads? if so please keep an eye on this one!!!!! i mean, "WLTXD crutch for weaker players"
It cannot, will not, should not be described as a crutch for weaker players!! if you don't like the ruling, don't use it in single player, if it's mulitplayer, organise so as not to allow it!! and for occ, it's part of the style of play, we can win at deity without too much hassle, but wltxd addeds another element in that we need to manage. It's bloody hard to use it in such a perfectionist way so as not to lose out on research or earnings. If you've not tried it, give it a go in occ and just see how hard it is to achieve the finish times that some of us get!!!
Ok, that's my bit said, i'm done - stick a fork in me!!!!!
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Oldman,
"There are not more than 5 musical notes..." - Sun Tzu
"There are not more than 5 primary colours..." - Sun Tzu
"There are not more than 5 cardinal tastes..." - Sun Tzu
And we build an Academy for this guy 
Edited: those bloody smilies!!
[This message has been edited by Oldman (edited May 15, 2000).]
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Sten Sture
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SF, CA don't call it frisco... Striker!!
Mar 1999
time: 21:12
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quote:
Originally posted by Smash on 05-13-2000 02:59 PM
I'm really starting to dislike the "reply with quote" feature
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LoL!
quote:
Originally posted by Venger multiple times over a short span
You are not allowed to post LoLs in my very serious thread
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Ooops, I forgot about that...
quote:
Originally posted by Venger multiple times over a short span
You are not funny, you vagrant sodomite, I am the only one allowed to use sarcasm in this thread
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Looks like I have been sent home by the official goose-stepping civ nazi.
Seriously, this clown shows up with a b2-15-99 sign-up date and 5 posts, and then he starts flaming everyone twenty times a day in one thread to build up his post count. I want to bet that the one we know as "Venger" was not the original Venger that posted here in 98/99. If I were going to get a DL, I would look for an old relatively unused login, and email Markos that I had come back after a lengthy absence and forgotten my password. Poof! Reset password, and a very old login becomes a DL.
Now I have nothing against Venger, old or new, because I think he is just posting on this thread to try to rile everyone up. He should be commended for selecting an appropriate topic and effectively barbing his fellow Apolytoners. I am just curious who he was before taking on the Venger name...
Any guesses?? 
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Steve Clark
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Colorado Springs, CO
Oct 1999
time: 22:12
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quote:
Originally posted by Sten Sture who I always look forward to hear from
Now I have nothing against Venger, old or new, because I think he is just posting on this thread to try to rile everyone up. He should be commended for selecting an appropriate topic and effectively barbing his fellow Apolytoners.
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Yeah, I would agree with that. If you look around at some of the other thread here and in other forums, venger comes across as a *****. Yes, I know, that is an insulting thing to say. In every forum I've been involved with, there are at least one person who is insecure enough to really want to have people respond heatedly to opinions and arrogant enough to trying to control the interpretation of those opinions.
I come to the point now that I don't read his posts anymore. That is my right and of course, my opinion. And please, Mr. venger, don't take this apart and respond to every single word, it is not that important.
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Venger
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Keeper of the Can-O'Whoopass
Jan 1970
time: 23:12
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quote:
Originally posted by Oldman on 05-15-2000 05:46 AM
Please Mr Ming, Sir...
Do we still have the 150 post limit on these threads? if so please keep an eye on this one!!!!! i mean, "WLTXD crutch for weaker players"
It cannot, will not, should not be described as a crutch for weaker players!!
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Read the title again. It was "crutch for weaker players?". Note the question mark. I wanted to posit this as a question open to debate, rather than a ruling or just pulled-from-ass observation.
quote:
if you don't like the ruling, don't use it in single player, if it's mulitplayer, organise so as not to allow it!! and for occ, it's part of the style of play, we can win at deity without too much hassle, but wltxd addeds another element in that we need to manage. It's bloody hard to use it in such a perfectionist way so as not to lose out on research or earnings. If you've not tried it, give it a go in occ and just see how hard it is to achieve the finish times that some of us get!!!
Ok, that's my bit said, i'm done - stick a fork in me!!!!!
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That you can't win OCC with it really isn't a convincing argument.
Venger
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vik
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Colorado Springs, CO, USA
Jan 2000
time: 05:12
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war3ever,
(i couldn't resist)
war4ever,
One disagreement on your assessment of the designer's intent: as was said earlier, I believe it is irrelevant. If all the designers got together and said "Yah, the population explosion is exactly what we intended with the WLTxD, I still don't think you would answer Venger's question as he worded it. Even if they did intend the population explosion, it really does not answer if it is a so-called "crutch" for the "weaker" player?
So instead of focusing on the "righteousness" of whether to use WLTxD or not, I focused on the word "crutch."
I contend, as I have contended ever since page one of this thread (and I belive Venger acknowledged it), that if WLTxD is available to all players -- weak, mediocre, strong, and/or elite players -- then it is truly not a "crutch" for just the weaker players.
Agree with me you do? Hmmmmm?
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14-05-2000 09:17
I wonder whos words would you have associated Yoda's with when you first heard his? 
ha ha!!
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