08-12-2002 00:48									#181
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Hmm... I honestly don't think that any of the original SMAC-7 factions were presented in a condemnatory manner... Chairman Yang does have excellent quotes, and from his viewpoint, he is the only faction leader willing to try to overcome the problems caused by individualism in order to unite humanity towards a common goal.

Either way I continue to love this game, the breadth and depth of thought BR put into it amazes me. At this point I just wish it were either open sourced, or Firaxis decides for some unknown reason to actually patch the game and reprogram the AI so that it doesn't make the same easily exploitable mistakes again, and again, and again...

	08-12-2002 12:17									#182
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I think lal can also be considered a cooperationist.

The drones are also a fun faction to play, in fact i actually work better with them than i did with the hive (!). The data angels are probably the most "free" society, problem is that probe rating bug that make you choose illogical SE choices to balance

Yang is still the best philosopher in any game ever, except for his hatred of democracy (which really doesnt make sense if you think about it) - but you only see that in AI disscussions with him. Domai is almost as cool, but Yang came first.

REmember that one of the goals of the game is to show that philosophy is NOT linked with race. while cultural stuff DOES show up (for example in Zaks base names, and the mao-yang similarities) the idea expressed in the manual is that in space people are NOT brought together by birth, but by ideas.

	09-12-2002 20:07									#183
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quote: Originally posted by Alinestra Covelia

brilliant!

from a second generation chinese in europe

	10-12-2002 07:56									#184
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Well, I'm a second generation semi-Chinese in America right now... working on a paper about the representation of China in the US press.

Makes for interesting reading. Especially interesting is how all the academicians look the same to the Americans, but are actually split between Taiwanese (who have a very unique view of China's press) and mainland Chinese (who have a very unique and diametrically opposite view of China's press).

The number of times I've heard an American say "But look! His name's Chiang Hsu-Ts'u! As a Chinese citizen, he's gotta be a neutral commenter!"

	11-12-2002 01:10									#185
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So Alinestra, what exavtly do you think about Yang? And to what extent does he resemble the Chinese rulers?

	11-12-2002 05:43									#186
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There's a very old thread entitled "Chairman Sheng Ji Yang" somewhere in the musty bowels of the archives. I suggest you go there for the Alinestran stance on the good chairman.

I think it's about 2 and a half years old though so you may need to dig hard.

Alternatively if you can wait until I get this work crisis off my chest, I can try to restart the thread again

	11-12-2002 05:58									#187
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quote: Originally posted by Alinestra Covelia I think it's about 2 and a half years old though so you may need to dig hard.

It probably deleted. Too bad though.

	11-12-2002 17:01									#188
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Nice to see a pretty even distribution amongst the factions....except for that damn University

	11-12-2002 22:35									#189
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Yeah, I don't get the Uni fixation either. The AI in SP play will almost never exploit the probe weakness, so it seems like that faction weakness is almost a "free pass" of sorts.

I like the morgans nowadays, though I still stay away from FM- too much a P.I.T.A., and run green/knowledge.

Peacekeepers seem like a nice faction, but rather dull. Think I'll try a game tonight with them, with some of the pointers from this thread.

	11-12-2002 23:59									#190
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DDave,

Check out CivGaming SMAC Academy Section for some early game pointers on builders in general including Lal.

Og

	12-12-2002 02:34									#191
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quote: Originally posted by Alinestra Covelia There's a very old thread entitled "Chairman Sheng Ji Yang" somewhere in the musty bowels of the archives. I suggest you go there for the Alinestran stance on the good chairman. I think it's about 2 and a half years old though so you may need to dig hard. Alternatively if you can wait until I get this work crisis off my chest, I can try to restart the thread again

Well, if it is deleted like DinoDoc said, it would be very kind of you if you describe it once again. I consider it very interesting.

	20-12-2002 11:04									#192
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Who cares?
The only good Commie is a dead Commie.

	27-01-2003 21:51									#193
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bumped^

	28-01-2003 01:37									#194
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nice bump

Peacekeepers.

I was on the Firaxis boards for around a year before SMAC came out as one of the few leading "peacekeeper" posters In fact, I think I came in second place for the voting on the Firaxis boards for "Peacekeeper of the Year" when we held voting on stuff like that just before the game came out (yeah, I had little better to do my first semester of college before getting an over-active social life ) Back when I first started posting there, the peacekeepers were still known as the Keepers of Wisdom... Firaxis changed their name and concept to the U.N. faction somewhere fairly early-on, but there were still about 2-3 of us peacekeepers around from the Keepers of Wisdom days

I created a custom faction based on the original Keepers of Wisdom concept, but I could never properly balance it. oh well.

	28-01-2003 03:19									#195
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normally, i'd say we need a new thread, one with all the factions now that the poll choice limit has been increased. however, this thread is just such a classic....

	28-01-2003 03:52									#196
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Every Time I see this Thread I am asthounished at the Number od Drone Supporters! :=)
way to go Pals.

	28-01-2003 13:39									#197
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What to say the drones has something that make you feel alright...

	28-01-2003 21:15									#198
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I voted peacekeepers, but i like all factions who make good builders ^^

	28-01-2003 21:32									#199
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University of Planet. I like the bonus research and don't have Alien Crossfire yet, so it isn't really a tough choice. The free additional starting tech (usually I pick Centauri Ecology if Blind Research is disabled) and free Network Nodes aren't too shabby either .

I like more than one faction though. It's just what I feel like playing at the moment. The Spartans (most balanced Momentum faction IMO) and Gaians (nice all-round Build faction, though crap at war without relying on Mind Worms) are also ranked high on my most played factions list.

	28-01-2003 23:26									#200
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quote: Originally posted by Ivellios Gaians (nice all-round Build faction, though crap at war without relying on Mind Worms)

Having a -1 morale is really such a non-penalty it is barely worth mentioning. With creches built, your garrisons won't even notice, and when you're ready to build your army, you should have some morale improvement facilities, which easily keep you in the running with the other factions. If you're running wealth while building your force, then your army is going to be outclassed by an equivalently developed faction, but this is true for _all_ of the factions. The only _real_ drawback for Deedee's morale penalty is the inability to build commando units for the quick monolith upgrade to elite, at least without going Fundie. And even that is only relevant to land units.

Can the Gaians outfight a equivalently developed Spartan or Believer army? Maybe not, but with her inherent bonuses, she shouldn't have to face these factions without a pronounced tech edge.

	29-01-2003 10:34									#201
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Old skool thread! Good to see we have more Hiverians out there than before.

I'm still a staunch Chairman Yang supporter!

Go Human Hive!

	29-01-2003 11:44									#202
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CEO Aaron-
I agree with you completely as far as single player games are concerned... but in multiplayer morale can occaisionally play a significant role. In ACT060 it is in the 70s, and no one has researched impact weapons yet, everyone has focused on supply crawlers and infrastructure up to recently, when war broke out between me (Gaians) and the spartans (controlled by hobbes).

I am running planned/wealth, and he is running dem/planned. My units cost 80% of his, but have only 75% the morale. I haven't had the time to put creches and command centers into all of my bases, the majority of my military will be produced at bases without any such infrastructure. I have a few native units to supplement my main forces, but not nearly as many as I would want.

Suffice it to say that my "other" advantages may play a role in the future I don't wish to comment on this since the game is in progress.

I am a huge fan of the Morganites... playing as them has given me an insatiable lust for energy credits... having a productive economy is a tremendous boon in MP games, because it allows you to react to threats adaptively, and it allows you to distribute the money to develop bases however you see fit.

It just amazes me what a huge difference Morgan's +1 economy and starting energy credits make.

	29-01-2003 21:03									#203
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I also suppose the -1 Morale disadvantage gets less and less significant as you progress through the game when you can build quite a few base facilities that boost morale. In the early game, grabbing The Command Nexus definitely helps if you're planning to go to war with Deirdre, which you probably don't .

	29-01-2003 21:58									#204
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quote: Originally posted by Frankychan Good to see we have more Hiverians out there than before.

i've converted back to universitarianism

	29-01-2003 22:44									#205
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Gaians and Peacekeepers. I *love* the efficiency bonuses (good for creating a strong economy), huge hordes of mindworms and awesome edge in terraforming of the Gaians. Plus, they suit me ideologically. The PKs I like for their unparallelled ability to pop-boom into an Instant Empire (TM).

Yeah, I'm a hybrid player by nature I love being able to turn my peaceful techie-builder infrastructure into a militaristic-industrial monster in a few turns. *snicker*

	29-01-2003 23:23									#206
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quote: Originally posted by Hendrik I am running planned/wealth, and he is running dem/planned. My units cost 80% of his, but have only 75% the morale. I haven't had the time to put creches and command centers into all of my bases, the majority of my military will be produced at bases without any such infrastructure. .

Just a question, but are you only at a 25% morake disadvantage when running wealth? I would have thought that the inherent bonuses and disadvantages would give the Spartans a 25 % advantage and that running wealth would would give at least another 12% disadvantage from running a minus 3 Morale SE choice. Or is it the situation that your units are very green anyway and it works out that there is no impact.

Note that you will feel the morale bite for certain when you get a morale enhancing facility in place . . . ( and see the gains halved)

	29-01-2003 23:59									#207
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Just to clarify my stance on morale, I think the _inherent_ minus 1 that the Gaians get is negligible. Running wealth while in a shooting war is asking to be annihilated, unless you have a pronounced production/tech advantage. -1 morale is a 12.5 % penalty to all units produced, which, while inconvenient, just isn't that big a deal. Its the halving effect of running -2 morale or more to your morale facilites, ie: bioenhancement centers, command centers, etc., that will make your units markedly less powerful than those of your more violent neighbors. The moral of the story? Don't run wealth during a shooting war, at least during one you're worried about maybe losing. Does this affect Gaians any more than other factions? Not really. Hence my conclusion that an inherent morale penalty of -1 is not really all that crippling.

quote: Originally posted by Hendrik I am a huge fan of the Morganites... playing as them has given me an insatiable lust for energy credits... having a productive economy is a tremendous boon in MP games, because it allows you to react to threats adaptively, and it allows you to distribute the money to develop bases however you see fit. It just amazes me what a huge difference Morgan's +1 economy and starting energy credits make.

Yeah, I kinda like the Morganites. Yeah, you could say that.

	30-01-2003 19:18									#208
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My favourites are Gaians. As Aaron explained, the -1 morale is no big deal. In fact, if you fight with native units, it does not even matter. And using native units with Deirdre is a real killer:
You can catch them for free,
they heal in the fungus away from base,
they move fast in fungus - no need to build roads towards the enemy
they do not require support (if cought wild or staying in fungus)
your +planet rating acts as morale boost for them
they keep getting free "weapon upgrades" as a result of battles.

They become weak only after Fusion and +50% psi attack applied to elite enemy. But that comes so late, that you should have won by that time unless you are doing something wrong

But the real advantage of Gaians is the +1 food in fungus. This makes it possible to do real fast thin expansion early on. If you make the PTS, then most other factions would lose 1 pop from every new base built unless you pre-terraform the area before planting the city (which is time consuming, so there goes the fast thin expansion down the drain). However Gaians can expand like crazy without terraforming, because fungus is everywhere and it can feed the new bases.

	30-01-2003 19:34									#209
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Yesterday and the day before I tried other factions, especially the builder factions. Psyche, support, and industry all went badly for me. ICS did not work well. Military engagements were humbling.

So I'm sticking with the Hive for now.

	30-01-2003 20:05									#210
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Flubber-
My SE morale is at -3, so my units are actually below very green morale, if I build a unit at a base without a creche/command center and upgrade it at a monolith- the morale moves to "very green". Spartans have an SE morale of +2, meaning their units are disciplined on offense, hardened on defense. So I suppose that if I were attacking his units there would be an even larger morale difference.

Force tends to be asymmetrical too... in most multiplayer games I have played high attack rovers are the norm, and even with a low morale unit it is quite easy to kill said rover in open terrain. If you can get into an attrition situation like this then wealth is very *good*. I find that in most battles I fight morale would make very little noticable difference. I tend to keep a few high morale units along for taking out hard targets.

Morale does effects interceptors a lot... there are some situations where I might not want to be running wealth... but if that extra energy means you get fusion power earlier, it is worth it.

Wealth is a great SE choice for most factions, and a FANTASTIC choice for Morgan! Having +2 econ without FM is great, I tend to run dem/green/wealth and allocate all energy to econ or labs, depending on which I need more at the time.